A balanced and articulate summary of ketogenic eating

Thank you for that info. I was aware that humans had foraged grass seeds long before the advent of modern agriculture but was unaware that wheat consumption goes back as long as 105,000 year ago.

I am uncertain, however, that wheat is a healthy food, especially in this era of genetically modified crops that are now sprayed with glyphosate herbicide as part of the growing and harvesting process.

US is the worse about allowing gmo crops, well maybe not the worse. But if you get organic they are not GMO, herbicide or pesticide treated. Plus what they give to animals from antibiotics to needing B12 because they are lacking is pretty bad too. And unless the meat is organic they are eating the grains that are sprayed with pesticides and herbicides.

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Thanks for posting the Sisson podcast @Terry4, I got a kick out of watching him, what a character.

I only wish his Primal Nutrition products were more widely available in Canada.

I’m reading a magazine, “Eating Well”, March 2020, with an article, “The Real Mediterranean Diet”, pp. 4-13. I thought I had recently seen a post from you asking about how to lower your LDL, without medication, so when I read this part, I thought of you. You might want to pick up a copy to read the entire article:

Blockquote “… Indeed, Albaugh noted that, “To the foreign visitor, food seemed literally to be ‘swimming’ in oil.” And, when Keys made his observations, he found as much as 40% of daily calories came from it. Unlike the saturated fats in animal products, the monounsaturated fat that predominates in olive oil has been shown to lower “bad” LDL cholesterol and boost the “good” HDL kind.”

Blockquote “Emmanouil Kapadakis, an olive oil tasting expert at Terra Creta olive oil cooperative in Chania, told me that 1940s-era Cretans were likely to be consuming olives harvested when still green and thus richer in antioxidants. As Katz later explained, these greener olives would have contained higher amounts of a compound called oleocanthal, a highly potent antioxidant that gives olives its slightly bitter edge.”

Blockquote "Oleocanthal has been shown to have anti-inflammatory effects that play a significant role in reducing the risk of chronic diseases, including heart disease, type 2 diabetes and certain kinds of cancer. According to a study published in the “Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry” that compared oleocanthal levels in both early- and late-harvest Greek olive oils, batches made from green early-harvest olives had nearly twice as much of the compound than oil from those picked later (however, even the oil made from late-harvest olives still had significant amounts of oleocanthal). … "

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Thanks Tapestry. I will look this up and do some research. I hear good and bad things about olive oil, but it seems to me that a really good olive oil might be helpful.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Marilyn

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Folks, once again, what a great and informative discussion. I love how there are so many opinions and advice, and so much respect between everyone, particularly when there are disagreements. I am a novice compared to the knowledge of all of you, but I learn so much from following these threads. Thank you for taking the time to post your comments/thoughts. Jim

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Be careful with Olive oil as it is not regulated in the US and even Extra Virgin Olive oil really means nothing here in the US. When I started cholesterol lowering quest I did a lot of trial and error testing on extra virgin olive oils and wines from the South of France that were high in polyphenols and tannants. After importing a few cases of certified wine from the South of France, I found the tannants to have little to no effect on cholesterol. The olive oil, however, has beneficially contributed and I fill the center cavity of my avocado daily with a mixture of extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar. It is worthless to buy the olive oil at the supermarket but certified oil from Europe can be very expensive. The best combination I have found of ratio of polyphenols to cost is:

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I’ve been fascinated by the polyphenols contained in first cold pressed olive oil ever since the 1992 movie Lorenzo’s Oil (Nick Norte, Susan Sarandon)

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Thanks C. In my research this morning, I found what seems to be a very well researched article saying to stay away from olive oil, so I already decided to do that. I recently did start adding a bit of avocado to my main meal.

Can you elaborate as to why one should stay away from olive oil? Do you have a link to the research which states this? Most of my dinners contain some amount of olive oil, if only used for salad dressing. I also regularly eat avocado with tzitziki.

That’s interesting to know, thanks

Part of the cause of the research’s findings could be what they defined as a normal blood glucose level. For a non diabetic, after 2-3 days of fasting, levels would be stuck at 65 all the time. If the pateints’ BG levels had been consistently close to this figure would they have entered DKA? - perhaps not, who knows, and would be pretty unrealistic to try and maintain a BG figure that low I imagine anyway

In general then - if doing a keto diet, ketone levels should be tested regularly, especially if fasting

Yeah, my posts about DKA were more in response to the comment that DKA is about blood sugar (it isn’t really), than the broader topic of keto diet. I don’t think eating keto on its own elevates risk much for most diabetics, though what people don’t talk about is that it depletes liver glycogen stores, so therefore glucagon should be less or possibly ineffective in someone in dietary ketosis. Ideally eating keto reduces severe lows via law of small numbers etc, so may be less of an issue, but that seems like a key risk for people to be aware of.

Re: euglycemic DKA, for what it’s worth, I know of at least one diabetic who went into DKA while sick with a stomach bug with blood sugars in the 100s (not sure what exactly, probably not at non-diabetic levels, but also not at levels that anyone would consider a risk for producing ketones normally)—I don’t know how common that is (my guess is not very) but it’s possible. It takes fairly extreme other circumstances though, and it’s why if you get sick to your stomach and can’t keep anything down and then can’t take insulin, you need to be monitoring ketones and may need to go to the ER for IV fluids/glucose/insulin.

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Trying when looking up olive oil, I came to the Pritikin site which had several articles about olive oil that seemed to be well researched. If you google: olive oil Pritikin you should be able to find them. These aren’t recent articles, but thorough.

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Thank you, @Marilyn6, I’ll look that up!

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OK, so I went to the Pritikin site and from my research so far, I strongly believe that their hypothesis has been and is in a continuous process of being totally discredited. They cherry-picked data from reports that cherry-picked small segments of populations that back their hypothesis. To go into detail would take a lot of space in a post but I would be happy to get deep into the weeds on this one with anyone interested as I have done a lot of research on this particular topic over the past 6 months.

This video may seem a little over the top by a doctor who explains why Pritikin study is mostly rubbish but it is pretty much spot on when you lift and look at what is under the hood. Please look at the following video and anyone that wants to get into a healthy discussion, I am ready:

I agree @CJ114 I love a lot of what Pritikin has done. He really started the movement of eating to correct heart disease. But an awful lot has come out about how good olive oil is for you. Several companies have actually come out with Olive oil extracts, besides olive leaf extracts.

Most of everything labeled from Italy is not actually from Italy. I don’t remember the figures but less is actually imported than what is on the shelf labeled from Italy. I buy Braggs Organic brand which is a really nice company and they don’t claim it’s from Italy, it’s supposed to be from Greece lol…but knowing the company and meeting the family that started the company, interacting with them for years, it probably really is.

But extra virgin and organic is what matters to me. Extra Virgin because of the simpler cleaner processing and organic because oils retain more pesticides than most other foods.

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This reminds me of the late 1970’s when our company used to quarry marble tile in Taiwan and then ship it to the US through a port in Italy which allowed us legally at the time to sell it as marble from Italy. The public assumed it was Italian marble. Ahhhh, those were the days, how times have changed. :rofl:

Sorry I couldn’t sit through all of this. This doctor certainly likes to insult people who don’t agree with him. I got tired of being called names.

I will look again at the Pritikin article that I read. I don’t believe that it was the same article, but maybe I read it too quickly.

Although I am not really interested in getting into a discussion about fat and low fat diets, I do find it interesting to read other people’s opinions as long as they treat people with opposing views respectfully.

Frankly I still don’t know if eating olive oil is good bad, but I do agree that If I was going to eat it, I would buy the purest olive oil possible.

We all just have to choose what we think is best for each one of us. No one has all the answers and many scientists and doctors disagree. We just have to do what feels right after doing research.

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Belief in Pritikin may need revaluation

I didn’t listen to the video. I just know in my industry olive oil was very respected as being good for you.

There are different people that believe in low fat, Pritikin was one of those and I truly believe he has some very good points. He was responsible for making a big push to reverse heart disease. And he definitely helped a lot of people. There is the all fats are okay in whatever quantities, I am not a fan of that and probably never will be. And then there is the in between where there are good fats and bad fats. Mediterranean diet comes to mind on that one. That seems to be the type of diet a majority seems to think is the best over all nowadays and I would say I fall into that category. I am obviously also pro vegan as I am one.

You always have to decide what suits you the best.

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