A balanced and articulate summary of ketogenic eating

You are right to illustrate that I should have specified my fears are mostly relevant to Type 1’s and otherwise insulin-dependent. I too broadly use the term “diabetic”, when I mean other people metabolically like me.

I actually have no issue with nutritional ketosis in people not already prone to ketoacidosis. It is possible, but exceedingly rare to proceed to ketoacidosis just though a keto diet in HEALTHY people. I’ve only known one person, personally, (not Diabetic of any type) to do so, but he didn’t actually eat real food. He lived off of body-building shakes alone, with a single can of tuna once a week as a “treat”.

I do cringe every time I read about our ancient ancestors being in ketosis, though. For one, we have limited information on them, and “experts” can only speculate. They don’t even agree on estimated lifespans. How long do you think a diabetic could have lived then, anyway? Mortality rates of the youth were astronomical, only the fittest had the privilege to die of old age. It is unlikely that any humanoid ever existed on meat alone, either. Dental relics show we’ve always evolved as omnivores. They gathered nutrient dense fruit, nuts, ancient grains, and roots when they were available Ketosis is likely what got them through the winter and early spring. We’ll never be able to really know, only speculate.

You can’t cherry-pick data of ancient hominids, though, to draw a correlation to modern humans. None of us live in a hunter-gather society. They still exist, but not with the technology and internet access to join our discussion here. We have 12,000 years of evolution following the development of agriculture and a more heavily grain-based diet. We didn’t take well originally to agriculture, there is significant evidence of evolution to adapt and thrive on the new food sources. We have very different chemistry from our woefully-referenced predecessors. I’m happy to embrace the choices that improve the quality of you life, but please don’t defend those choices with misrepresented “fact”.

But again, I’m not disputing the use of keto in healthy people. I’m definitely NOT supporting a grain-based diet, either. I think it’s probably great for many type 2’s. Though I do think it’s popularity will fade in the near future as we learn more about insulin resistance and it’s causes and learn how to treat THAT rather than the symptoms.

So yes, I’m rephrasing my earliest sentiment to “keto for Type 1s scares the crap out of me”.

I eat fruit, all vegetables,oats groats, quinoa, legumes, lentils, rice and very few processed foods. I will eat a few rice crackers and a fake chicken patty once in a while. I take fish oil pills

For almost 20 yrs my A1c has almost always been between 4.7 to 5.5. Last measured at 5.2. I weigh 102 and am 5’1”. I exercise an hr a day.

I have heart disease. LDL 114 HDL 69 triglycerides 49

My insulin resistance is too low to be measured.

I was on Bernstein’s diet for 11 yrs

Mastering Diabetes for 3 1/2 yrs

Before that I was a vegetarian and I ate fat and most anything I wanted.

I have been studying this all day and comparing the diets. I can’t really criticize either of them. I have no idea why I have stents. Doctors say diabetes and previously high LDL. I still wonder about stress, since I have had a stressful life and 2010 was unbelievably stressful. A week after I watched my Dad die, I had surgery for suddenly painful kidney stones and bladder cancer was discovered. Three months later I was with my mom while she died. A week later I suddenly needed stents.

I think my almost vegan diet is very healthy. I think the Mediterranean diet is the healthiest diet that there is, and I might look more closely at that. That would mean adding olive oil which would mean taking more insulin. I definitely think that non processed food preferably organic is beneficial.

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This is a totally awesome podcast for those that support as well as those that do not support the “Keto” trend. The one takeaway, which is often alluded in the podcast but not stated could best be summarized that Keto is not necessarily a way of eating or way of life all in or all out. It is just a tool that we can all use to our benefit from time to time in our lifetime. We are all different so for some of us it may be just a few weeks or months from time to time and for others an all in commitment. Each individual needs to determine exactly what Keto means to them and then eat accordingly based on their physical and mental needs. This podcast is a great recap.

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That wouldn’t be with normal BG, would it.

Dietary ketones and DKA is opposite and not related

The only thing I would do if I were you. Keep my eye on my liver function and trigs/hdl. Your BG is good with what you are doing

You need to learn how to research things for yourself. Good information can’t come from a single source, but rather compiling the data.

Google “euglycemic dka”, there’s enough information to keep you busy for awhile.

Thanks Jack, I watch my numbers like a hawk. :grin:

This is why I asked for a link

There’s a list of reasons. T2 or T1 diabetes isn’t one of the causes.
Alcohol is as well as others

Definitely nothing about keto

As a side note, that “10,000 years” applies to domesticated wheat and other grains, and hasn’t kept up with recent archeological findings. The date of domestication is probably much older, as a hoard of grains and a collection of flint sickles found in Israel in 2016 dates back 23,000 years.

However, before domesticating grains, early humans were certainly eating them as part of their foraged diet. (What percentage, we don’t know.) There’s evidence humans were harvesting einkorn wheat about 30,000 years ago. Evidence of plant-derived starch granules found on fossil teeth and stone tools suggest humans have been eating grains for at least 100,000 years. Grass-seed residue on stone tools found in Mozambique in 2009 suggests early humans relied on grass and other starchy seeds starting at least 105,000 years ago, or the Middle Stone Age. Which is long enough for us to have evolved the ability to tolerate them.

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Thank you for that info. I was aware that humans had foraged grass seeds long before the advent of modern agriculture but was unaware that wheat consumption goes back as long as 105,000 year ago.

I am uncertain, however, that wheat is a healthy food, especially in this era of genetically modified crops that are now sprayed with glyphosate herbicide as part of the growing and harvesting process.

US is the worse about allowing gmo crops, well maybe not the worse. But if you get organic they are not GMO, herbicide or pesticide treated. Plus what they give to animals from antibiotics to needing B12 because they are lacking is pretty bad too. And unless the meat is organic they are eating the grains that are sprayed with pesticides and herbicides.

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Thanks for posting the Sisson podcast @Terry4, I got a kick out of watching him, what a character.

I only wish his Primal Nutrition products were more widely available in Canada.

I’m reading a magazine, “Eating Well”, March 2020, with an article, “The Real Mediterranean Diet”, pp. 4-13. I thought I had recently seen a post from you asking about how to lower your LDL, without medication, so when I read this part, I thought of you. You might want to pick up a copy to read the entire article:

Blockquote “… Indeed, Albaugh noted that, “To the foreign visitor, food seemed literally to be ‘swimming’ in oil.” And, when Keys made his observations, he found as much as 40% of daily calories came from it. Unlike the saturated fats in animal products, the monounsaturated fat that predominates in olive oil has been shown to lower “bad” LDL cholesterol and boost the “good” HDL kind.”

Blockquote “Emmanouil Kapadakis, an olive oil tasting expert at Terra Creta olive oil cooperative in Chania, told me that 1940s-era Cretans were likely to be consuming olives harvested when still green and thus richer in antioxidants. As Katz later explained, these greener olives would have contained higher amounts of a compound called oleocanthal, a highly potent antioxidant that gives olives its slightly bitter edge.”

Blockquote "Oleocanthal has been shown to have anti-inflammatory effects that play a significant role in reducing the risk of chronic diseases, including heart disease, type 2 diabetes and certain kinds of cancer. According to a study published in the “Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry” that compared oleocanthal levels in both early- and late-harvest Greek olive oils, batches made from green early-harvest olives had nearly twice as much of the compound than oil from those picked later (however, even the oil made from late-harvest olives still had significant amounts of oleocanthal). … "

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Thanks Tapestry. I will look this up and do some research. I hear good and bad things about olive oil, but it seems to me that a really good olive oil might be helpful.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Marilyn

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Folks, once again, what a great and informative discussion. I love how there are so many opinions and advice, and so much respect between everyone, particularly when there are disagreements. I am a novice compared to the knowledge of all of you, but I learn so much from following these threads. Thank you for taking the time to post your comments/thoughts. Jim

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Be careful with Olive oil as it is not regulated in the US and even Extra Virgin Olive oil really means nothing here in the US. When I started cholesterol lowering quest I did a lot of trial and error testing on extra virgin olive oils and wines from the South of France that were high in polyphenols and tannants. After importing a few cases of certified wine from the South of France, I found the tannants to have little to no effect on cholesterol. The olive oil, however, has beneficially contributed and I fill the center cavity of my avocado daily with a mixture of extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar. It is worthless to buy the olive oil at the supermarket but certified oil from Europe can be very expensive. The best combination I have found of ratio of polyphenols to cost is:

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I’ve been fascinated by the polyphenols contained in first cold pressed olive oil ever since the 1992 movie Lorenzo’s Oil (Nick Norte, Susan Sarandon)

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Thanks C. In my research this morning, I found what seems to be a very well researched article saying to stay away from olive oil, so I already decided to do that. I recently did start adding a bit of avocado to my main meal.