Atorvastatin (Lipitor)

Type 1 and LADA
21

I’ve read about this, Brian_BSC. The weird thing is that the news only has to do with T2, but for sure the blood sugar increase problem applies to others, right? The day after I stopped taking atorvastatin (this past Saturday night), my BG dropped dramatically by the next morning. Because I was on birth control at one time and it also bumped me into dangerous territory, and once I stopped it I came down, I knew that the window during which I started this drug and my ridiculously high numbers was not a coincidence.

Also, I tend to pay attention to the Finnish studies because there is a HUGE rate of T1s from that country, I have Finnish genes from my father’s side, and there was a study done some time ago there which linked gestational diabetes with the onset of T1 a few years after the birth of the mother’s last child - exactly what happened to me.!

Anyway, as always everyone’s different. At this point, I’d rather try other methods for dealing with my vascular system than adding yet another drug to my regimen - esp. if it’s one that is antagonistic to my overall health goals. It’s hard enough, you know?.. But, I’ll try anything once.

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22

@Brian_BSC: I wasn’t going to chime in here until I read your post. I also refuse to take statins for every reason you’ve posted. Add to that the people who’ve died from liver failure and those that’ve needed liver transplants due to statins.

Further, there’s something wrong IMO when a fairly new drug shoots to the #1 prescribed drug in America AND the cholesterol recommended Lab Values are dropped, too!

Just my 2 cents.

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23

I also refuse to use them. I’ve told this story before, but after numerous debates my doctor finally let me go my own way on this. BUT: he had to add a notation to the chart clearly stating that they were declined by patient request, lest he get slammed on his next review for failing to prescribe them or even, conceivably, not get paid for seeing me. That’s how rigid and inflexible standards of care can get.

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@David_dns: Even more good points David! Doctors have their protocols - not necessarily based on what’s best for individual patients!

If everything worked the same for all of us - what an easier time we’d all have getting dx and treated!

25

Exactly right. My lipids are excellent: total around 150, HDL:LDL around 2:1, trigs in the 40s. I don’t need statins! But the “standards” say that any diabetic beyond a certain age should be on them regardless of other factors. Thus, the experience outlined above.

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@David_dns: In that same vein - I was put on Lisinopril to 'protect my kidneys since I’m DM and that’s their protocol - very low dose - 2.5 mg, since my blood pressure was consistently normal - 100/70’s. Developed most severe cough, but no other symtoms.

Discovered Lisinopril is made from snake venom and particles can get lodged in lungs, causing ‘Lisinopril Cough’ in 10% of patients, sometimes even after 10+ yrs of use.

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Interesting about Lisinopril. I was on it for a while too, for the same stated reason, and the standard word on ACE inhibitors is that they do cause a dry cough. Which it did. Doc took me off it because my potassium was up into the red zone. Stopped the lisinopril and the potassium dropped back where it belonged.

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Reading all of your posts I might have to re-think my use of Statins. I had something like a 250 total cholesterol level. I also have fatty liver disease and a mildly swollen liver due to that. It’s just hard to say what to do. I was also on Lisinopril for high blood pressure, but I stopped using it. I have started to ignore my high BP. It is only severely high when I am standing and walking, so when I treat it with Lisinopril, it goes dangerously low when sitting down. I figure something’s got to take you out sometime. You can’t prevent everything. Then again, I have a lot of medical issues going on that will probably do me in before the diabetes and higher BP when standing will. My doc finally backed off after I told him my BP was going to 90 over 50 when in the sitting position. Maybe I will come off the cholesterol meds for a while and see if my BG gets better.

Also, I’m sorry if my first post was not accurate. I have read the studies about statins causing high BG. They are also now advocating statins as a preventive drug to patients who do not even have high cholesterol. It is a money maker for the pharmaceutical industry that’s for sure.

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Geez! Snake venom… Snake oil…

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T1 50 years. I take 10 mg once a week of Atorvastin. Fought my cardiologist for years and finally gave in when calcium score was a little high. She says once a week still gives some protection. Its a tough call for all of us as we know the docs have to prescribe it, and we know why we read of its devastating potential side effects. Happy to have others to know we are not alone. Anyone have T! long term and refuse the statins? Love to hear your story! thanks

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31

T1 62 years. Took simvastatin for several years till walking-inhibiting leg pain – cardiologist said to stop. That cardio tried me on several others; I’d stop when leg pain started, and finally gave up. I do have high cholesterol and coronary artery disease. New cardiologist had me take CoEnzymeQ for 6 weeks before starting 5mg/day of atorvastatin, to prevent the pain.

But, even before the leg pain started, I was having horrible problems with bg, had to raise both my basal and bolus rates, but never got it right, was chasing. After stopping the statin, both the bg and leg pain definitely improved, but it still seems to be harder to get down to normal bg after being high.

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From what I’ve read, doctors are over prescribing statins and exaggerating the need to lower cholesterol. Check out drcate.com and her articles about statins and their side effects. Doctors get subsidized by the drug companies to prescribe and so-called experts are paid by those drug companies. According to Dr. Cate the only people who really need to take statins are those with bad diets, who smoke and have had some kind of heart episode. Otherwise you could do more damage like encourage dementia. Cholesterol helps deliver fats to the brain and is critical for detoxing. Statins block a metabolic pathway that can effect much more than your cholesterol numbers.

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33

Just dropping back in to this thread with an update. I had a blood lipid panel done this morning and taking 20mg of atorvastatin just two days a week has lowered my LDL from 140 to 93. My HDL, which was already very good, has increased and all my other numbers are also great. I’m very pleased that the limited dosage has achieved this result. As I explained earlier in the thread, the only reason I agreed to try it is because a calcium scan shows I’ve got some atherosclerosis beginning and I don’t want it to progress. I was on the fence about statins for so long, I’m happy my cardiologist agreed to try a conservative approach which appears to be working. No side effects that I can tell so far.

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I’ve experienced the same. Ridiculous. My standard response to any Dr. who tries to push a statin on me is “show me one peer reviewed study from a respected medical journal that shows a link between elevated LDL and heart disease for people who’ve never had any cardiac issues, and I’ll consider a statin.” The best I get in response is “they say you should because you have diabetes…” Often the Dr. even struggles to clarify who “they” are.

Not good enough.

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35

Here you go Christopher:

My dear wife has been a diabetic since age seven, and NEVER had elevated LDL symptoms either, and in 2004 she underwent triple by-pass surgery. Why because taking insulin all those years can cause artery narrowing over time as was her case. You can do what ever you want, but I don’t believe that taking a statin will kill you. I myself have been on a statin for 25 years because of my own heart disease, and I will attest that statins do work to lower LDL levels. BTW I’ve tried them all, and I’m now on Crestor (Rosuvastatin) which thus far is the best that works for me. The side affects are some musculear leg cramps that do subside after you get use to the medication. Once again, I’m not telling you what to do as you are a grown man. What I’m saying its better to be safe than sorry as what my wife’s Endo told her. With that said, its your life so do what is best for you.

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Correlation is not causation, the plural of anecdote is not evidence, and the cholesterol-CVD link has never been convincingly established.

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So glad it is working so well for you! I am also using atorvastatin the lowest dose as a precaution to both e diabetes and the family history of heart attacks and strokes. And while I have never had cholesterol issues, I will say that my numbers are all perfect and with no side effects. Been taking statins for years and it isn’t always the same one, you know how those insurance and doctor changes make the type change but still taking one. It is not for everyone but for many it helps. My thinking is if I can halt heart issues, I’m all in.

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38

Well first, my OP was about Atorvastatin. Even though I have never taken a statin before and my doctor was only suggesting it, because actually my lipid panels still are good, I thought that because of my T1 status, my age, and being female it would be a good idea at this stage in my life to start taking one as an additional precaution. I also had been having some troubling symptoms which led me to worry about my heart.

The first statin I tried was Atorvastatin, which wreaked havoc with my blood sugar levels. Not for me. However, since I last participated in this discussion, I have seen a cardiologist, and after taking several tests which only work for detecting MACRO vascular issues - stress test, EKG, electro cardiogram, she suspects a microvascular cause. This is totally in line with being a woman, as microvascular issues are very common with them, as opposed to men (which, I might add, were the sole subjects of pharmaceutical research up until 3 years ago, when the NIH required testing on female subjects). Microvascular issues show up during perimenopause but are often not diagnosed, and can lead to heart attacks in later years, post-menopausal years. Hormonal fluctations, particularly the loss of estrogen which is protective against heart disease, are a huge factor before “the change” - and doctors who specialize in women’s health are starting to see the connections and treat the perimenopausal period as a vulnerable stage of a woman’s life. Anyway, I have started taking nitroglycerin tablets to handle episodes of angina, I have a low-dose nitroglycerin patch for periods of time where it lasts longer than the tablets will treat, and I am trying a DIFFERENT statin to help with flow in my microvascular system, which statins are known to help with and which was a factor in my diagnosis because once I stopped Atorvastatin, my blood sugar improved greatly but the chest pains came back more painfully and more often. The statin I am now taking is Pravastatin. So far, it seems to be ok but as with many medicines, it takes time to settle into your system so you can see the bigger picture of the effects on your system. I don’t have any expectations, but I am vigilant.

So as is usual with this complicated disease, a one size fits all approach is wrong - but you can start with that, and drill down to the particulars. The important thing is to communicate with your doctor, and make sure you have a doctor who is not on auto-pilot and is willing to be a real scientist, i.e. an investigator, a thinker, a person who is actually interested in the best qualities required (yes, required) for a career in medicine. It’s tiring but really having a chronic disease for which there is no cure IS a constant experiment, and if you’re not up for that it’s going to be hard to carry on.

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Important takeaways from this are that not all statins behave identically, and that it can take a while for side effects to show up. The first statin I took (doesn’t matter which one) had some very disagreeable side effects. The second one seemed not to have them . . . at first. Eventually, though, they surfaced as badly as ever.

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Yes. It’s a complicated thing, it’s a personal decision about whether to take statins based on your experiences with how they interact with your own chemistry. One cannot know without trying, but for sure there isn’t anything, excepting insulin in the case of insulin-dependent diabetics, which is a magic bullet. Insulin being a “magic bullet” in the sense that it’s the one medicine which keeps us alive, period.