Can you reliably tell the hour when bg will begin to rise during dawn phenomenon?

does the hour bg begins to rise during dawn phenomenon stay consistent morning after morning? if not, what factors affect when dawn phenomenon starts?

I have a minor dawn BG bump around ~4:30-5am every morning, it seems to last till ~7-8am(when I wake up). I just stepped up my basal from 3:30am-7am, and now I don't see it at all and wake up with a BG of 90-110 most days.

is that bump at all affected by the time you go to sleep? so if you go to sleep later, will the bump also move to later? thanks!

with me, it's a complete enigma, sometimes I get it, sometimes I stay steady, and sometimes I drop. If there were some kind of predictable pattern, I could change my basal rates to fit. (type1 for 47 years)

For much of my life, it hasn't been consistent. Sometimes I suspect DP, but a recognizable pattern isn't common. For the last three months, I have what I think is, confirm-able DP. It starts the moment I wake up and raises close to 1 point per minute until I treat it. You might have some 'diabetes black magic' going on. You have sensor data? If you have variable start/stop times or variable rates of increase, from day to day, this is gonna be a tough one to treat. Especially, if its somewhere in the middle of the night.

You need a lot of data to figure this out. I'm hoping you have a CGM.

Like others said, for me it is unpredictable. It depends on when I wake up & get out of bed, as I'm retired this is not a consistent time so it makes it very difficult to tailor basal rates on my pump. It can shoot up 50 mg/dl or more but other times much less. If I take a walk before breakfast it really shoots up so I've stopped doing that.

Me too.. v/prediabetic: mine is not predictable at all, so, so far I'm still up all night on the pump or waking up before I want to and doing corrections. The only thing I can predict about my bg is that it is not predictable on a regular basis unfortunately.

It's pretty consistent for me, I go to sleep between 10-11:30pm most nights. It is really only affected if I have a restless nights sleep, then my BG is always higher in the morning.
My basal setting change isn't much, but small tweaks really have a strong effect on me. .55u 10:30-12am, .5u 12am-3:30am, .55u 3:30am-8am.
Oddly I get a bump right around 12am also, both are very predictable. If I didn't deal with the midnight bump I'd run 130+ bg when I wake.
I figured both out with some basic testing. Waking at 1-2am to test for a week, then waking at 3-4am to test for a week. No elaborate basal testing was needed, I just raised my basals the minimum my pump would allow until I reached the bg I wanted.

What you are describing isn't DP mohe0001, that's just normal waking up for most people! DP is when your body starts that same process before you even wake.
You could always try a minor bump an hour before your normal wake time.

I'm the opposite of you, my basal needs lowered by ~15% once I'm awake.

Hey your picture is of a Rufus Hummingbird! We get those ornery little guys up here every summer.

He was getting ready to alight on the feeder, I'm not the photographer that's my husband. When they return in spring they hover around the usual feeder spot to let me know they are back & I should get busy mixing up sugar water.

If I don't have food out by March 15th, one or two of the older males will hover in our kitchen window, its their way of "tapping their foot".

LOL. Well, DPs as good a name for it as any. I take a 12 u mid morning bolus for it.

Crazy cool!

I don't know if your kidding or not, so I'll just spell it out, as I understand it. DP is characterized by increasing blood glucose levels that result from changes in hormone levels that coincide with waking up. Thats why its called Dawn Syndrome. If you guys have other definitions (and I'm sure there are), let 'em fly! Lets hear them.

For me, DP starts about 11 pm and lasts until about 2 PM.
Really!
T2 21 years, pumping for 8 years.

-Lloyd

around 4:30 am i can feel myself start to awaken- i can feel that change- even when i want to sleep more because i have been waking up all night. could that be the cortisol from dawn phenomenon?

IDK, maybe thats just when your body wants to wake up, but I bet it could be because before I noticed this pattern of DP, I would be sluggish in the AM and very, very hungry for breakfast. Now, I wake up like a bullet out of a handgun - sit straight up in bed, and I'm ready to go. Huge increase in AM energy, that I think is associated. Don't get hungry until about 2pm. Full of energy and adrenaline, or something. Maybe liver is kicking out sugar. IDK.

Wow, Loyd, that is horrible :-(