Controlling Type 1 Diabetes with the Paleo diet

Thanks for your input, ultravires, I think you make some valid points. I do believe I was responding to what was actually being said, but at this point I am going to opt out of the discussion because everyone’s said what they needed to and after that it becomes just another bickering session which is unpleasant for everyone.

He contradicts himself by saying he’s been off insulin for 5 weeks and then talks about dosing insulin for a banana. I think he means he is off his Lantus possibly, and just using short acting insulin when he eats. He exercises a ton and eats low carb and in his honeymoon…his insulin needs may be low but he is not cured.

You still don’t provide any evidence. Some people’s lack of willpower doesn’t translate into good scientific evidence for the dietary necessity for starches.

Do YOU have any scientific evidence that eating carbs is ALWAYS detrimental to glycemic control? Is there any good reason why what works for you is what HAS to work for others.



Can you point me to some scientific research that proves Low Carb is unequivocally the ONLY way to treat diabetes? That it is not associated with complications it’s own that was/are not forseen? One possiblility on this vein of thinking- High protein intake is associated with calcium being diverted from the bones to the blood. You say you can take a vitamin for that? Well I believe that there is synergy you get from food that you cannot get from a vitamin. Take for example Lycopene which is found in cooked tomatoes (which if I am not mistaken Dr. B rec. be avoided). Research shows men with high intake of Lycopene from cooked tomatoes have lower rates of prostate cancer. What it did NOT show was that there was the same protection when men got Lycopene from a supplement. How about ketones? Can you say those do not have long term comlications associated with them even when only found in lower levels that this type of diet pushes the body towards (I know DKA and this is a totally seperate issue so no need to go down that road)?



Frances I have no specific scientific evidence for you at this point. I suspect even if I did it would make little difference. But, if you give me a little time I am certain I can find some research that will support what I want it to (Just as anyone could find research to support their position on virtually any debate-that is why it is a debate). I can tell you for certain that scientific evidence often times misses the mark when you look at in retrospect- so do not put all of your eggs in one basket that usually has a hole in the bottom of it.



I am NOT trying to tell you or anyone else that going low carb is a bad idea. I am not saying for you it does not work or even that you should be worried about what this type of diet may mean for people 30,40, or 50 years from now.



What I AM trying to convey is that blanket statements such as “I don’t think there is any vital nutritional role for starches” cannot be applied to everyone in every situation (see my example for the vegan above). If Low Carb works for you great! I am happy for you! I say keep doing it! But when you come into a discussion and leave nice little tidbits like “Some people’s lack of willpower doesn’t translate into good scientific evidence for the dietary necessity for starches” can you not see that this may be viewed by some as quickly approaching bullying and at the very least inciting an argument? For some it has nothing to do with will power. Maybe that is all they can get from the food bank is starchy foods because they have spent all their money on test strips (I know I have never seen nice cuts of lean meat being given at the food bank). Should we tell these people that they may as well give it up? It just simply is not possible to get good control unless you eat low carb? That their lack of “willpower” is going to be the end of them? For this person starch is playing a vital role- it is what is keeping them alive.

Blanket statements simply do not work when you are dealing with a very diverse group that count into the millions who are afflicted with this disease.

“scientific evidence” in what sense? even if you’re 100% right that they are not strictly necessary, you actually have not provided any evidence that they are bad (other than 2 sentences of assertions), nor does your argument account for compliance rates (which are scientifically measurable and make a huge, huge difference in what diets lead to the best long-term health outcomes). you can talk about “some people’s lack of willpower” as if it’s an isolated problem, but most people do not stick to diets entirely devoid of starches and it’s irresponsible to present those diets as the only acceptable option. if you do better avoiding starches, then do what works for you, but blaming people for their lack of willpower just sets people up to fail.

also, there are other reasons to eat starches. one is because they taste good, which believe it or not is an important criterion for most people. another is because some people have an ethical objection to eating animal protein and require starches for a complete amino acid profile. another is because they provide quick replenishment of depleted glycogen reserves in athletes or other active people. you get the picture…

Yes. this can be. I went on the caveman/paleo diet and completely stopped taking insulin during the day. I still took my Lantus at night but also cut down. I didn’t eat bananas or much fruit at all. I had to add some complex carbs to run long distances and with that I added some insulin. I’m still way down on my insulin though - at least half of what I was using.

It started as a two week experiment has become a way of life. I’ve been paleo since July 2010 and it has worked wonders.

The greek yogurt – e.g. Fage or labneh, or “strained” yogurt – has only 7-9 gm of carbs per cup, depending on the butterfat content.

You can make it at home this way: put a quart of plain yogurt into a few folds of clean cheesecloth in a colander, over a bowl, covered with a weighted plate (e.g. with a clean, sealed jar of water on top of the plate) that fits down into the colander. Put this contraption into the fridge and let the whey drip into the bowl for a day or two. When you take it out and unfold the cheesecloth, you can scrape out the strained yogurt with a stiff spatula or serving spoon.

The whey has taken most of the moisture and some of the carbs, leaving behind a creamy yogurt that is halfway between normal yogurt and cream cheese in consistency. Yum.

Honeymoon.

God bless his enthusiasm and courage.

It will stand him in good stead in the long years ahead.

By the way, how did we get to be a culture that considers eating refined, starchy, processed, grain-based foods “normal” and eating lean protein, low-glycemic vegetables, nuts, seeds and seasonal fruits “extreme”?

Has anyone ever changed anyone’s beliefs about diet in one of these threads? I sort of like eating less carbs (like 150/ day, not “low carb” at all but not the 225-250 the dietician said I “should” eat). I still am wondering though if I might be able to get away with shoveling some more food in. I mentioned somewhere else an article in “Fitness” magazine suggesting pre-race carb loading for a 140 lb female around 515G/ carb/ day!! I am sort of in the habit of doing what I do during the week and generally get nice flat results but I am still intrigued by the whole science thing. The low carb advocates are certain that 30G of carbs, like our ancestors ate 100K years ago on the veldt, is plenty and there’s no “loss” of anything in doing that. I am not sure where Laura actually recommended the “food pyramid” but she did say she eats what she wants. I am sort of stuck there too as I am still working on losing weight and I am sort of addicted to the flat, stable BG I get when I eat more conservatively. I would ask my doctor about it but I suspect that she’d have a quick answer “eat more” that she’d f/u w/ an appointment to see a dietician which I would probably blow off as I am not sure I’d believe them anyway because I’m doing ok on my own?

WOT, but why would you see a CDE if you are a CDE, isn’t there some sort of “playbook” that you’d know? I had an appointment with one when I got my pump but before I got it so it was sort of talking about my horriffic pre-pumping regimen which was being chucked anyway and, while I liked her and thought that she was very knowledgeable, it also struck me as sort of a waste of time if I wasn’t having a specific problem I need to fix? And when those come up, my inclination is to bust out the toolbox and fix it myself.

I agree w/ ultravires that you sound like the sort of provider I’d be interested in seeing. If I had a problem, that is!

I LOL’d at the before.

He looks like Superman taking a nap, not like someone who is wasting away.

I guess we need an earlier before to compare.

The question that I’m asking pertains to the science of human nutrition, not to people’s personal taste preferences, addictions to carbohydrates, or “ethical objections.” Snickers bars taste good too, but that doesn’t make them vital for human nutrition. So far, the only piece of evidence that I’ve been offered at all is your third reason in the last paragraph, about depleted glycogen reserves in athletes. Thank you,

Thanks, ultravires! Patients (and I spend plenty of time being one) benefit from visiting with CDEs. And any self-respecting CDE is open to and learns from her patients as well. I view it as collaboration, and believe very strongly that that’s the way it should be :slight_smile:

Let me just say that every RD and CDE I’ve ever met has been a caring person, they have worked hard to learn about diabetes, medical nutrition therapy and other topics. They have always done their best and had my interests at heart (not something I can say about other medical providers). And I realize that for some, become an RD or CDE as a diabetic is a very real way of bringing meaning and purpose to your life by helping others.



I have personally struggled with some of the basic things that are taught to RDs and CDEs. In particular, the diet is an ongoing struggle for me, I have come to believe that the dietary advice provided by the American Dietetic Association is fundementally flawed (and don’t get me started on the USDA). And I don’t believe that diabetes is “caused” by obesity or that the current “war on obesity” is going to prevent and cure diabetes in a big fraction of the population. But I think many/most RDs and CDEs are smart people and don’t just follow the leader.



Please don’t take my criticism of these positions as being critical of you. If you bring up these topics, I will discuss them with you and I may well not agree with you, but that is what this forum is for and we are a diverse community. I am pleased that you are here and I appreciate the work that you do.

LOL acidrock, I hear you, it may seem weird that I see a CDE, as I am one myself. But you know what? I think everyone can benefit from some objectivity to optimize their control. I definitely do. Also, I’m an RD and she’s an Endo RN with decades of experience. We like and respect one another. She works WITH me. Doesn’t talk AT me. But you’re right, I am much more likely to call her when I’m hitting a snag (such as the pregnancy, which was a BIG BIG SNAG! Your photo reveals clearly that you will not have to worry about that one!!)

lol I can barely tolerate alcohol in any form – and I tell you I could use a shot (or two) pretty badly sometimes.

The ADAs dietary guidelines are tied into a lot of other sets of guidelines out there and are backed by a significant amount of quality research. That said, most guidelines are expressed in terms of ranges. And the ranges aim to include all people, but what ONE set of guidelines could absolutely do that? We all need to interpret recommendations and guidelines for ourselves. And for those who feel they need help doing so, there are professionals available to provide it. (BTW I’m not a terribly big fan of the ADA either, BSC, in many ways! I definitely don’t take your criticisms personally, and I appreciate you too!)

Zoe, you have revealed yourself to be anything BUT open, knowledgeable, respectful or caring. Opting out was a great idea. I’ll just pocket your apology, follow your lead and “opt out” of any further interactions with you in this community. Stay well.

That’s a really good question.