Ethical Cure

How many of you know that JDRF is involved in Embronic Stem Cell Research? Do you know that Human lives are being destroyed to research a cure for diabetes? There is a post here about a recent interview with their president in which he does not discuss this issue at all. In replies to my comments in that post, I was critiqued for bringing up the issue of Embronic Stem Cell Research (I think that there are those that would like it to be a dirty little secret - If we dont know its happening, its OK?) So that is why I am moving the discussion here. No comments are disallowed here - I would like to hear all sides and thoughts… Does it bother you that others are working on our behalf and destroying human life to find a cure. Would you prefer that this research be done with Adult stem cells that do not destrpoy human life? Would you take a cure that cost another human their life? Personally I will not. I stopped donating to the JDRF when they announced this policy change last year.

I would give my life for a cure D for 30 years .

It doesn’t bother me at all. It bothers me approaching it from your perspective, dickengel



Stem cell research (although I will admit that the embryonic kind doesn’t bother me either, since it is legal. And I would argue that it should be legal. Women will chose to abortions whether it is legal or isn’t so it should be legal and safe and covered by insurance and protected from religiously motivated fanatacism, I can’t describe it any other way. Step cell research can involve many sources of stem cells and embryonic stem cells aren’t guaranteed to work better than adult stem cells anyway. donates money to JDRF to make up for dickengel stopping

(oh wait, you are already embroiled in a ridiculuous flamewar in the other thread?)

Ah so if we do not agree with another’s opinions we call them a religious fanatic and refer to their opinions as a ridiculous flamewar?



What happened to an open discussion of the issues and freedom of speech. Yes you are entitled to call me whatever names you choose but I would appreciate it if you would not.

I think that your behavior on an internet forum is obnoxious. Can we get a poll added to the thread? I am being obnoxious too because I don’t like it when people like you try to push people around and ruin internet forums. Surely there is a forum of like-minded people you would be better served by?

I do not think I am pushing anyone around. I am providing information and an opinion. I really dislike it when people who can not compete on the issues resort to name calling. There are many names that I could use to refer to your conduct but I choose not to. I wish that you could be civil in your disagreement.



I thought internet forums were a place to discuss ideas and share information. I doubt if most even know that JDRF participated in Embryo destruction. So you may call me whatever childish names you like, but you will not silence me.



Those of you that oppose Embronis stem sell research and the destruction of Human life, please share your views with tthe JDRF. Maybe if enough voicesd are raised, the research could be moved to Adult stem cells which do not involve the destruction of human life.

Stem cell research, and stem cell based treatments do not have to have any sort of ethical implications. I personally do not think the life of an embryo is worth more than a sentient child or an adult. At the risk of being controversial, I think the using human embryos for research is OK for lot of other things aside from curing diseases.

The value of life is not quantifiable, and that value doesn’t ‘go away’ if some living thing dies, otherwise things like history, and food could not exist. The argument over embryonic stem cell research isnt one of the value of life anyhow, its one of the value of humanity, and sentience. Neither of which is apparent at all in an embryo, and both of which are indisputable in people at large. Potential for sentience is not sentience.

I do however prefer that other than embryonic stem cells be used in research and medicine, for no other reason than the fact that embryonic stem cell research has so much opposition.

At some point, especially in medicine, you may have to sacrifice the sanctity of unencumbered research for adoptable, non-controversial methods.

Please Please explain to me how they are destroying human lives? I would love to hear this nonsense response

Taking cells from already dead embryos doesn’t constitute saying that we are taking human lives. Its not like oh hey you have a baby inside you lets kill it for stem cells, thats not how it works, not even close.

We grow cells in a dish in a lab, take the cells to apply for advance medince to help find a cure tons and tons of diseases, not to mention limb regrowth and giving people the chance to walk again, and even that approach is going away. We can now take human skill cells and turn them into stem cells for the same effect. Even when this first started we never killed a human life in order use stem cells, people like yourself really need to get educated.

It really pisses me off when comments like these is WHY we are not more advanced in science and medical technology. The majority of americans think this way to lack of education and need to realize in order to advance our society they’re going have to get over it.

If it wasn’t for the crusades back 2,000-5,000 years ago where everything science based was accounted as “the devil” and forbidden to be used/heard/read about, we would be much much much farther along in the world and it’s the same views as yours which is causing the same effect today.

You are pushing people around. I could spend all day looking up the numerous, rational counterarguments to your points but, since there are 5 people in the other thread telling you to behave yourself, while you are calling them “selfish” “killing a fetus” (LEGALLY, dick), “supporting murder”, [implying they are Nazis], etc. These are nice people. Admittedly, I sort of disagree with some of them about how low carbs should go for me but I’m warming up to that. You are not being nice.

I am no longer being nice since you have conveniently started a thread for me to not be nice to you in because, Tim–who is also nice-- has tried to get that thread back on track. Please stay here and be mean to me since being mean to people is clearly a source of pleasure to you. :slight_smile:

unfortunately, however, you cannot persuade people of the value of their own humanity, when you dismiss their intelligence so casually. The only way to get anyone to accept something they think is against their beliefs, is if you use those beliefs to rationalize the idea.

Please read the following for an expla=nation better than I can provide.http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/stemcellresearch.html

i too would give my life for a cure.

im sad that the OP would bring this CRAP here.

LOL LOL



Dickengel - if you want to get a point across please use non bias fact based articles, lab research papers something.



Do not sent me to a website with the title



"Dedicated to restoring JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES TO AMERICAN PUBLIC POLICY"



Thanks for my proving my point 10 fold

I like your rationale, while I disagree with you and do think that the life of an embryo should not be destroyed. I will not engage in the is this life worth more than that life. All life should be preserved… The point that is important is that there is honest disagreement on the use of Embryos and the slipery slope that cloning and all the other elements of this research. There are 4 types of stem cells and use of other than those from an Embryo have shown promise and have created cures. These cures are non controversial and could be shared by all. If we focused our research dollars in that area, the cures that are created could be used by all. If we focus the research dollars on the Embryos, those cures could only be used by those that do not have an ethical problem with the destruction of potential human lives. We can argue all we want whether an Embryo is a life or not, but the fact exists that for many it is a significant ethical issue that would prevent them from accepting such a cure.

Please JDRF - use adult stem cells and work towards a cure that we can all use.

I still stick to the idea that potential for sentient human life, is not the same thing as sentient human life. Its like saying stealing a nickel is the same as stealing a million dollars, because a nickel has unlimited investment potential. Value is not a time traveler. Potential for value is not equivalent to value.

You are implying that all life is human life, which isnt the case. Example: my lawn. I wouldnt argue weather a living embryo is alive at all, its implied by calling it a ‘living embryo’. However, I will definitely argue its sentience and its humanity.

I have no issue with stem cell research, only embronic stem cell research. Do you propose that there should be no limits on science. Should we have science for the sake of science. Are we going to justify the works of folks like mengel? He only killed people who were going to die anyway?



What is a human skill cell? I would be interested in that technology if it does not involve Embryos.

Consciousness doesn’t quite hit until later in the process. I could buy an argument that it starts there but then there’s the whole existential suggestion that existene precedes essence too?

Science should have no limits that is not illegal



Also please do not associate a Nazi SS captain who did “experiments” on his prisoners and take that as “science”. I mean you are basically stating that the scientific community will be doing what the Nazi’s did dring WWII if it was legal?



If regular scientists, the scientific community, or even in the year 2000 were doing this you would have a point but some Nazi back in 1944 who chose to do experiments on his prisioners does not represent the scientific community, or even science for that matter and if that is what you think then I now understand why you have the view you do.





http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080211172631.htm - for your question on skin cells