First phase Beta cell faliure

I am a lean pre Diabetic with first phase beta cells dead second phase still functions i am genetic or autoimmune now this condition comes with nasty side affects so its been suggested i kill off my 2nd phase evey time i spike more beta cells die so this has been getting worse for the last year but i slowed down the process with protein diet no carbs. But still suffer sugar swings to very very fast spikes to low 3s They say i can’t be helped until my pancreas id dead. \so i need the best pancreas killing diet any ideas apart from the obvious. I guess i will gain a little weight but i will deal with that once my beta cells are dead.

Welcome, we’ve been here waiting for you. I’m really glad you found this forum.

I don’t think of it as killing off your poor pooped out pancreas, you are just overwhelming it. Your phase 1 response comes from insulin that is stored up and your phase 2 comes from insulin that is produced. Usually, between meals, extra produced insulin is stored up and ready for the next meal. But with diabetes, your pancreas gets overwhelmed, your blood sugars between meals are still elevated and all available insulin between meals is used to try to bring your fasting blood sugar down. Your body never gets to the point where you can store up insulin for a phase 1 response.

So, here is the good news and the bad news. First the good news. Your pancreas is not dead, it is not healthy as a newborn babe, but no dead. And in fact, if you get on top of things, work on a low carb diet, exercise, maybe some medication, your blood sugar will improve and you have a good chance of fully restoring a proper phase 1 response.

But the bad news. Prediabetic is diabetic. The term is bogus. I know it is hard to hear, but you have diabetes. Your experience with high blood sugar surges after meals and then lows is called “reactive hypoglycemia.” It happens with diabetes as our bodies get dysfunctional in the production of insulin, overcompensating. A low carb diet can really help reduce that problem.

As you are lean, it may well be that you are “Not” a type 2 diabetic. There are other factors to look at and you will need to get proper tests, but over time you will come to a better understanding of things. You will need to work with your doctors and team to figure out what is happening, but asking questions in this forum can be real helpful.

Oh, and welcome. Did I say that?

sweet but sadly in my case there is NO cure no reversing and the cells are indeed dead there id no first phase function what so ever as i said i am not your normal pre diabetic. My diet was restricted to protein and cheese but has failed. Now i do understand how the normal diabetic comes to be but this is not the case with me awkward i know. Your answer is great if i was insulin resistant and not dis function genes. There is no stopping pancreas failure in my case so i can not keep this condition such that it is going for the next few months so am intending to speed up this death. Doctors consultants all are what less in my case so only one has recognised it for what it is. Back to my question pancreas killing foods apart from the normal high fast releasing sugars oats that chap mentioned reminds me my pancreas hates oats good idea. If i fitted the Norm they could help me

oh hi by the way sorry rude. Also it is highly lightly i will go straight to insulin

Plus reactive hypo been ruled out sorry good thinking though

I don’t know anything more about your situation than you tell me. You cannot test for Beta cell death, you can estimate beta cell function. If your doctor has performed the right tests and you are in fact insulin deficient, then you would not be called “prediabetic.” Prediabetic is a term that was made up to describe people that have type 2 diabetes who the medical system won’t treat yet.

High blood sugars can overstress your beta cells and they can be toxic to your beta cells. All I can tell you is that restoring normal blood sugars may give your beta cells a chance to rest and possibly restore a phase 1 response. Beta cell death only impact phase 1 response secondarily, the secretory vesicles of the islets are generally fine. Beta cell death impacts your ability to produce insulin and hence the phase 2 response is more indicative of remaining beta cell function. The decline of a phase 1 response is not really a good way of estimating the loss of beta cell function.

And you are not rude, you are just frustrated. And it is ok to feel that way. If you just look at my face you will see I am not normal. I never fit the type 2 mold. Medications never worked for me and I spent years trying. I just started insulin in december.

I hope you know that many people here have gone through similar experiences.

I like you. I have been arguing the toss over being diabetic for a year. But no pre they state so they say my pancreas is dying no help till its dead hence i intend to kill it! they have totally made me cross. The sugar surges and dips are a nightmare to live with and to be blunt i have had enough of the brain issues that come with it, So sick of it really i am. so high carbs stuff the protein diet thats rubbish anyway so i might as well eat normal stuff its just been so long i have forgotten food! tell me why do they say no help until your really in trouble? They say my fasting level holds even though i have hge spikes

In Type 2, it is typical to lose phase 1 insulin response – if caught early in an obese person, it can come back with careful diet and exercise control. But you say you are lean, and that rings alarm bells. Have you been tested for auto-immune antibodies? Could you actually be a LADA (Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults)?

Eating a lot of carbs and running high BGs will suppress your beta cells, called glucotoxicity, but won’t actually kill them off. As soon as BGs normalize, they recover. However, insulitis, a characteristic of Type 1, will kill them. If you’re going to rely on glucotoxicity, the only thing that will happen is that you will damage your body, and not achieve your goal.
I think your first goal is to establish whether you are truly Type 2 or not. If you are, a lot of small snacks during the day, rather than 3 bigger meals will help with the lows – every time your BG goes down, there is something there to bring it up again. The snacks need to contain some carbs, some protein, and you have to keep them small so you don’t gain weight.

If you are a LADA, it’s hard to get proper treatment in the beginning because a lot of doctors are not accustomed to LADA, and don’t know what to do with it.Taking a small amount of insulin can actually suppress the beta-cell response, giving them time to rest, and eliminating excessive lows. (as counterintuitive as that sounds!).

So I think first stop is an antibody test. Good luck!

Ok, let me also just cut to the chase. About 15% of diabetics are thought to be LADA. There is a separate forum for LADA as well as a group. the founder of this site, Manny is LADA himseslf. I personally consider LADA to simply be type 1 diabetes that is slow onset. I might have it, I don’t know. There are many others here who have it who have reallu struggled getting a proper diagnosis and treatment. I am sure they will pipe in should you wish to talk about it. Many of us believe that starting insulin early really helps with LADA. Although using insulin and injecting seems really scary, it really hurts less than those d*rn lances for blood sugar tests.

Hope that helps.

I have requested repeatedly c peptide tests but it gets refused i even offered to pay for it! Its always unstable fast extremly fast BS changes it does by nut in. My first consultant stated i can not be cured i can not stop this second one says all is well my sugars fluctuate so fast if they take the bloods 5 mins too late it gets missed! I normally spike 15 mins after eating by 30 mins my second phase kicks out huge amounts to correct it then i over shoot hence no diognosis i am at the end of my tether, So i figure strain it which is what i intend to do otherwise i will be like this for god knows how long. Last consultant said months a year tops but i am in trouble at work so need this resolved asap

How does LADA Start showing?

You need to develop some faith and confidence that you will surmount this difficulty. Step back, take a breather and just say “it is going to be ok.” You will figure things out and you will get proper treatment. I know that you may feel like things are out of control and nobody is helping, but it is going to be ok. You already know that following a low carb diet keeps the spikes down. We actually are blessed to live in this time with diabetes. We can manage our condition and live a happy, healthy, long and fulfilling life. This community can help you get through this. Just remember to have some faith, it will be ok.

Well, I will admit that I did something similar. I initially had a good 2nd phase response, and because of it was told I wasn’t diabetic, because I was 92 4 hours after eating. So I abandoned the diet they gave me, and ate a lot of carbs. Maybe coincidentally, I had a coronary artery spasm several months later, and I got a “probable” diagnosis in the hospital. It still took a year for my fastings to go up to a diagnosable level (cutoff was 140 then). I did have lows, but didn’t know what was happening at the time.

I don’t really recommend this approach, but know where you are coming from.

I think it would be helpful for you to keep a detailed log of food and post-prandial BGs to show your doc where you are spiking, and where you are dropping.

I still think the snacking is the best recourse – I did that, and it helped.

Currently, I have very little insulin response at all, and am on the pump – my diabetes continued to progress after formal diagnosis, and the sulfonylureas (all that was available at the time) did not work, so I asked for insulin. Glad I did!

Wishing you the best! :slight_smile:

If you click on “Forum” on the top banner, there is an entire discussion forum on LADA. Here is one of the featured discussions there right now

Thank you its just so frustrating, I have done the food log the BS log but to deaf ears. I am totally at a loss. All i know is i have had enough of the sweats the headaches and poor concentration moods and living to this. My 2nd phase is good it kicks out loads. But so much i drop too fast it seems my poor brain is getting confused

In the beginning, it can be hard to distinguish from Type 2. However most (but not all) LADAs tend to be lean or at most a little overweight. The only way to reliably distinguish LADA from Type 2 is to get antibody tests. There are several antibodies, and you may not be positive for all of them, which is why it is necessary to test for them all, and not just GAD (the most common test). C-peptide may be normal in early stages of LADA, which is another reason for antibody tests.

The other way to identify LADA is to wait until it gets severe and the person goes into DKA. NOT recommended, because DKA is life-threatening, requires hospitalization, and disrupts your life!

I don’t really fancy that my doc say they can’t do GAD test

Thank you i have requested GAD test and will not do high carb thing just so frustrated really i am. Strange question i know is labedo affected by this LADA thing?

Than you john x

In regards to eating whatever you want to hasten beta cell destruction. Remember that high blood sugar also causes many other complications kidney disease, heart disease, neuropathy, and on and on. I can understand your frustration when what you tell your doctor just goes in one ear and out the other. You are not alone in your frustration Dr.'s want to pigeonhole everyone as T1 or T2 but that doesn’t cover nearly everyone.

You can benefit from reading old post’s here because believe me you are not alone.

I wish you good luck in resolving your problem in a way you can live with.