No probs - good for you for being so determined to try pork insulin and ignoring your DN’s (baseless) concerns. There’s a lot of evidence that the c-peptides in animal insulin provides something for us that insulins without don’t. C-peptides are removed during the manufacturing process of human/analogue insulins.
I’ve spent the last 20-ish years resisting various doctor’s and DN’s insistance that I switch to human insulin from pork. My argument has always been that unless they can show me a good medical reason (other than the fact it acts faster than pork) to switch, I’ll stay on the pork insulin. So far, they haven’t given me a good reason. I’m lucky enough now that the doctor who looks after me at my local hospital (I told my GP I’d rather have my diabetes care at the hospital’s diabetes unit) supports me in staying on the pork insulin.
My current dosage is: AM (Before breakfast): 4 neutral, 12 isophane, LUNCH (before lunch): 4 neutral, PM (before evening meal): 4 neutral, 12 isophane. This keeps me nice and stable - it might sound like a lot, but I’ve been type 1 for 31 years so I guess I’ve got a bit of insulin resistance. I do have the odd day when my blood sugar’s running high, but never above 12 mmol/l.
Anyway, see how you go with the increase in the isophane - I’d be careful about doubling your dose straight away though. Better to increase it by a unit at a time and see how it goes for a day or two.
Yes, it does sound like you have given those enough of a try to know they don’t work for you! I thought the U.S. was the worst offender at “one size fits all” medicine, but it sounds like it’s worldwide. Good for you for bucking the system for what you know to be true for you. Sounds like there are at least a few others on pork insulin on TuD who are probably better equipped to offer suggestions on tweaking than your doctors.
Glad you’re feeling better and hope you come back all the way ASAP!
I did not mean that Hypos are good or should be target. In this case it appeared to me that the person was experiencing constant highs and no lows when on pork insulin but did experience low when switched to newer insulins. This made me conclude that there was some response to changes in dosage amounts when moved to newer insulins. So thought that if some how we can identify the right numbers we can stabilize the sugar levels with newer insulins.
reg the units i totally agree that one size doesn’t fit all. But my thoughts try to first stabilize the BS to some range (this could be above normal) and try to over come the fluctuations. Then probably the second phase is to bring this range to the normal range. From my experience i have noticed there is a close relationship between a hypo and a hyper. I mean it is very important to overcome a hypo before dealing with hyper.
Honestly the best way to identify the right numbers are to go on a CGM for 48 hours and during this time experiment with different meal timing patterns. The idea here is to determine
how long does it take for the sugar to reach a peak after having a meal and at what rate does the sugar level reach the peak?
what is the rate of decrease of sugar level in case u break a meal pattern? i.e. how fast do u hit a hypo.
Is there any difference in the way sugars change with respect to time of day. I mean some people regularly experience lows in the middle of night. so for these people it is necessary to have a different profile in the evening.
and several other things.
But in reality i have seen most Drs calibrating based on their experience and hardly seen any one follow the protocol identified by the pump suppliers.
I experience the same using Lantus and Novorapid. These are too precision tools. But pork insulin does not give me flexibility in daily schedule. It expects me to stick to a very precise timing which in my job is very difficult to maintain!!! I did maintain an A1c of around 6.0 for about 15 years while on pork insulin. but i had to constantly plan my life around my Diabetes.
I envy people who have the choice. I’d like to try pork insulin. I’ve only been on analogs. What are neutral & isophane, Sorry, know nothing about using animal insulin (obviously!).
Gerri. You have a right to go to pork if you want. That is what this organisation that I found is campaigning for. Doctors here (in the UK) are saying that pork insulin is inferior (or my DN was saying, “Well, you might be allergic to it!” and I was thinking “Well, if you won’t let me try, I won’t know, will I?” She was so adamant that she knew best that she dropped me and I was without any care for 2 and a half years!
Type in your search box, IDDT (Insulin Dependent Diabetes Trust) and ask for their bumf. They are sooooo helpful. Then go to the doctors armed with the information on paper and fight your corner. It is well worth it!
Thank you for the info. I was told pork insulin isn’t available in the US & had to be ordered from Canada. Is this correct? Without a doctor’s prescrption for insurance, I can’t afford it.
Email IDDT but I am pretty sure it is - doctors just tell you that. Unfortunately, like me and many others who want to change you have to do your own research.
If you cannot find their e:mail address I will find it for you later. It is now 8am in UK and I need to get off to work in the charity shop that I work in - and I need breakfast before then.
Message me again if you get stuck. Good luck.
Neutral is the faster acting pork insulin. Full name Hypurine Porcine Neutral.
Isophane is the slower acting pork insulin. Full name Hypurine Porcine Isophane. That is the cloudy one.
I don’t know if you know this but I was taught at a conference by IDDT that if you use the slower acting of either of the insulins, pork or analogue below the belly button and the fast acting one above the belly button it does work quicker. It seems to be true. If I accidentally inject the fast one below the belly button it does take longer to work.
The whole pork insulin thing is quite sensitive. You may have noticed the member MissKitka who has not seen an endo since '69, swears by pork. Pork is in fact “discontinued” in the US. It is not illegal, as the original terms of insulin development made “natural” insulin available without prescription. However, no company will make and sell pork insulin in the US. You can order pork insulin from foreign sources without a prescription, and I have information on that, but you must be very careful ordering from unknown sources. It would be extremely unwise to order pork insulin from an dubious source, the consequences could be tragic.
It is normal for people to use both and then you can fine tune it. I have discovered that if you use the more of the isophane (the slower acting insulin) especically at night then it lowers the day time readings. The neutral is the fast acting one you take at meal times and other times to lower your sugar levels. It is all much smoother than the analogues.
How did the isophane dose increase go by the way? Did you end up doubling your dosage or did you just give yourself an extra unit or two as I suggested??
Just had my HBA1c results back by the way - 5.1 so I’m happy as larry!!!
Here’s Wockhardt’s (the UK makers of Hypurin Porcine Isophane and Neutral insulin) page about exporting their insulin to other countries: http://www.wockhardt.co.uk/export/insulins.asp
…and here’s their PDF which is just about exporting to the US:
I am a lot better now. I doubled it. I was only on 4 anyway - and when I am well that is too much sometimes, get night time hypos. Doubled the neutral too and while I was ill and still had steroids in my body and was on antibiotics not much happened. But have managed to hit 5.2 twice. Highest today was 13.2 so I am a lot nearer my track than when I was in the late 20s early 30s!
