A challenge: T1 be a T2 for a day

He's upset with how type 2's are treated in comparison to type 1's , and it's completely understandable to be angry about that.
Again, bullseye.

I'm going to drop out of both of these conversations now, though, because it's clear to me (and I'm speaking only for myself and my own opinion) what I was complaining about is as bad as ever, and the path these discussions took demonstrates it.

I'm referring to those that seem to think T2, when not on insulin, is easier to manage effectively.

No one said that. Unless I missed it.

I don't think you've made any enemies ... I think the discussion here (considering it's online) has been quite civil. No flaming or other nastiness.

However, I'm kind of confused how the "point" moved from "T1 and T2 are essentially the same" to "T2s deserve access to insulin." Those are two utterly different points and, at least in the earlier thread, people are disagreeing with the former statement, not the latter.

One really, really important thing to keep in mind is that the T1s on this site are NOT representative of the average T1. Just as the T2s on this site are not representative of the average T2.

Outside of this site, I can count on two fingers the number of T1s I know who have (even with a pump) achieved an A1c below 6.5.

One of those people is me ... if two 6.4s in my entire 22+ years of diabetes counts. I've never had anything lower than that, and both those 6.4s were accompanied by way too many lows.

I don't think many Type 1s achieve an A1c of 6.5, never mind 5.5 and under.

no one said that and you're continuing this battle, trying to pit type 1's against type 2's and it's ridiculous. they're two different things and it's not type 1's role, goal or objective to understand type 2 nor do type 2's need to understand the disease of type 1. everyone on here is encouraging, if type 2's need support they get it and vice versa. what was said was, and appropriately so, type 1's don't typically comment or advise on type 2 management. the way a type 1 and type 2 manage is different, our sensitivity is different, etc...stop making this into a continued battle, it does nothing for this on-line community. And for pete's sake, do you want the type 1's to list what they eat (or can't eat) like injecting insulin is some magical panacea..it is not, how low carb many of us STILL have to go and we HAVE TO inject insulin (diet and exercise won't do crap) and often it still doesn't work. We typically are adjusting, correcting all day (often through the night) long.

stop comparing yourself to a type 1, if you don't like the discussions in the type 1 forums, then don't participate. And the reasons Endos and DTeams don't encourage type 2's to use insulin is because it's not addressing the major problems, i.e., insulin resistance usually due to weight, etc...adding more analog insulin can often make it worse and defeats the purpose of possibly getting off any medications when the metabolic issues are being addressed. We can't take orals, we can't exercise or diet our way out of this, ever. Insulin is dangerous and isn't something docs want to just throw out there, they try the other stuff first for type 2's.

I'm sincerely sorry you are so bitter, Sarah.

I haven't changed my original point that T1 and T2 are far more similar than not. That is what I started with in the other discussion.

Some T1's insist that they are radically different. Of course, this "depends"... Depends on what aspect of the condition is being discussed. I was make a general, overall statement, and nothing that's been said here by anyone has altered the fact that all diabetics have to test blood sugar, face serious health risks from high blood sugar, feel like crap when hyperglycemic, risk hypoglycemia (most T2's do as well because they are either taking insulin, or oral beta cell stimulant), keep careful records, etc.

That's the short list. Every one of these things has enormous impact on one's life.

Jen, consider what it is about diabetes that forces you to live differently than non-diabetics. Then, ponder what, among those things, is not also present for an insulin-using T2, other than the risk of DKA. If there are other significant differences, I'm sincerely interested in reducing my own ignorance on this.

Now, take injections out of the picture, and the life-style changes and burdens become even more in line. I've been a T2 for 15 years. I've been using insulin for 8 months. Prior to that I was on metformin and sulfonylureas.

Hypos have been a worry for me my entire diabetic life. Especially overnight hypos, which I've had when I didn't eat enough for dinner, and forgot to have my bedtime snack (distracted by wife, kids, being out, whatever). Something I find most T1's just doesn't occur to T1's on this topic is you can't carb count with pancreatic stimulants. It's a lot more guesswork. You can bet this results in plenty of extra anxiety.

Again, the point here is that T1's and T2's often don't know what the other's situation is like. And I stand by my assertion that this is a bigger problem on the T1 side (i.e. ignorance about T2's) than the other way around. For example, how many times in that other discussion did a T1 claim that T2's don't have to worry about hypos?

Insulin is only dangerous if your are reckless or lackadaisical about using it. I say that from experience as an insulin using diabetic.

As for T1's with a1c's in the 4-6 range, stick around -- there are plenty here.

Finally, your last statement about T2 relatives is part an parcel of what led me to start this discussion in the first place. Apparently you know how hard it is to control T2 diabetes, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make the comparison, right?

Then why do you, by implication, seen to think its just a cakewalk compared to T1?

No abdomen... wear it anywhere on your body there well-perfused tissues.

In fact, I find I get more accurate (i.e. less latency) readings with the G4 sensor on the back of my arm, or on a love handle :-)

don't encourage type 2's to use insulin is because it's not addressing the major problems, i.e., insulin resistance usually due to weight, etc...adding more analog insulin can often make it worse and defeats the purpose of possibly getting off any medications when the metabolic issues are being addressed. We can't take orals, we can't exercise or diet our way out of this, ever.
Jen and others -- you were asking what led me to the conclusion that some T1's here think they are radically different diseases, that T2 is some milder issue that can be controlled or eliminated by proper diet and exercise, etc.

Read the above excerpt.

Do you think T1s don't lead a restricted life?

I'm puzzled by the question.

Did you actually read anything I wrote in this discussion?

Did i say it was milder, if i had a choice, yes..i pick type 2. many, many, many type 2's CAN indeed control their Type 2 with diet and exercise and/or orals as many, many, many T2's do on this site and in 'the real world'. i never said eliminated, now...did I? There is no cure for type 1 or type 2. Seriously, not sure what your goal is in doing all this. Also, it's from my own experience, many type 2's don't want to be on insulin. Frankly, I do believe MY type 1, it's onset - DKA, and everything else is vastly different then type 2 diabetes, i've been told this over and over by endos, too. It's also a fact most doctors try to get their patients to take care of the underlying issues; Type 2 is typically not an insulin issue, most type 2's produce insulin, a large amount in fact - they're resistant to it. OK, done with this now.

Yea I actually did thanks for asking. Sorry you're puzzled and so defensive. I have never presumed to know what it's like to be a T2 and you sure don't seem to know much about T1s.

This is a subject that has been discussed long and hard on this forum and it is a subject for which there is no answer. There is no true way to know which is the worse type of D, both have there own set of challenges.

A good healthy discussion is what the forum is about but combative replies serve no useful purpose and only cause tempers to flare and unkind things to be said.

We would like the remind that the spirit of fellowship and support is what TuDiabetes is about and ask that all inflammatory statement be avoided in the future.

I think that T2 is worse. You have more metabolic disorders, doctors understand you less than T1 and you have to deal with the societal BS skewing everything. T1 suxx and T2 suxx. T2 can be treated but, in the long run, I prefer shooting up to stay flat to having to deal with the weird scenarios that seem to plague folks w/ T2.

I agree. When I was in the ER at diagnosis a very nice young resident simply said that insulin is the best medicine. Balancing a 3 drug cocktail with or without insulin seems to be a much more difficult task and one which probably needs more input from one's doctors - never a good thing.

However, those T1s who are diagnosed young also have very special burdens. To have to deal with this disease 50 or 60 years and then just reach retirement age seems very tough to someone like me. If I can hang on a mere 30 years, I'll be 87 which is a good long life

I don't believe that misery is a competition. And nowhere in the discussion is my state: T2 on diet and exercise only for 7 years, which requires an exhausting level of discipline.

Knowing this scourge is progressive, I study what all my insulin-dependent friends do---T1 or T2 or LADA. It is all helpful to me. It is all what I love about this D Family...Blessings on us all

And I would offer a reminder:


The drugs for type 2 are scarier than insulin too, at least I think so. I mean metformin is probably the safest type 2 drug, and it's probably also one of the cheapest ones (was only a couple bucks for me when I was taking it) but it still has really bad gastrointestinal side effects that come along with it for most people (I had really bad embarrassing gas from it and I feel lucky I didn't have what my mom's coworker did with it that sounded really crappy ...literally ) . But then there's stuff like Victoza, I've heard it's very effective (and some type 1's even use it for weight loss apparently???) but the commercial is scary and I would never want to take it if I was a type 2. I cringe every time I see a commercial for that stuff (I think Byetta has a scary commercial too? but not as lengthy and scary) . I'd be like screw that just give me insulin. Insulin might have rare allergic reactions and hypoglycemia with misuse but it's overall safer for you? Right?

im sorry that you and other t2s have to deal with this type of mindset from anyone-"lose weight-oh, maybe its too late for you to do that, oh, well obviously its because you are fat/lazy/dont want to/know how to take care of yourself....". it is hard enough dealing with the everyday care aspects. it would kill me to have people saying crap like this as well.

there ARE a lot of t1s that do understand. we support you and dont think you have it any easier. like i said before, sometimes i feel kind of lucky (i know, right, lucky to have either?) to be t1. i get the most socialized medicine is willing to spend on a diabetic and i dont have people telling me to just lose weight and exercise, and that, omg, if i just worked a little harder at it, then i would get rid of it!

i watched 4 aunts and uncles die from complications of type 2. those complications were just the same as they would have been for a type 1.

yes, the physiology and the pathologies are different, i get that. but were all in the same boat.

tud is mostly a breath of fresh air and im so glad ive found it. i have learned a lot about both t1 and t2 from the site itself and from the links to papers and studies and blogs its led me to. i knew t2 was hereditary, but didnt know just how much genetic makeup had to do with it. my aunt-sister to all those diabetics-knows, and is a zero carber/avid outdoor enthusiast, basically. she is determined not allow those t2 genes to express themselves. another aunt is also terrified and tries to eat low carb and do loads of activity as well. they do know though, that sometimes doing all you can just doesnt cut it with t2. i wish other people would understand that too!