Weight loss is far more complex than “eat less, move more”. There are no good medications for weight loss. Bariatric surgery is expensive and has its risks. Some people are born to be obese and CANNOT lose weight short of a starvation diet, and prolonged (4 - 6 hours) of strenuous exercise. A concentration camp would do it. But is it realistic? It’s not just the Whoppers, but any food that puts weight on these people. I have personally watched a close friend struggle with her weight – she eats better than I do, and she exercises more than I do, too, and she takes Byetta, but has not been able to lose the weight. Why is she obese and I’m not? Taxing the obese, particularly those on Medicaid, who cannot afford it, is the height of mean vindictiveness, and the people of Arizona should not stand for it. Impeach Jan Brewer!
At the same time, I do most of the grocery shopping and have seen quite a few eyebrow-raising carts, often pushed by people who appear to be bearing the consequences of what’s in the carts?
To me though, the government ought to attack the supply of crappy food more than the consumers thereof. Given the prevalence of nutrition information, it doesn’t seem like it would be too tough to identify “junk food” legislatively or even spectroscopically (e.g. Mt. Dew and Flamin’ Hot Cheetos, both of which simply look unnatural!) and tax the sale of it. If Potato Chips were $10/ bag instead of $3.00/ bag, perhaps we, as a society, would eat less of them or at least save them for special occasions? As a potato chip junky, I will have to start robbing liquor stores to feed my habit when they hit $500/ bag but, for now, i would certainly vote for a politician who would suggest somthing along those lines.
It would also be interesting to see the government take steps to push down the cost of exercising? Free running shoes and personal trainers for everyone? Medicare funding for health club memberships would be a lot cheaper than GBP and insulin pumps? It would likely also help the economy by growing that sector of business and, if we only use domestic ellipticals, production as well.
W/ people I’ve known, including my own experiences (-85-90 lbs, not that I weigh myself obsessively all the time…), the big challenge is to be patient and expect very slow progress. The idiots in the medial flash pics of studly people in bathing suits w/ rippling abs that say “I got this in two months of P90X” that leave out doing 1000s of crunches/ lunges/ pullups at the same time you make drastic changes in your diet. I think that eating less and exercising more is the key to losing weight but that the expectation shouldn’t be more than a pound/ week. I have seen that in a lot of articles (mostly Fitness magazine, since MrsAcidRock gets that…) but don’t see it broadcast widely or advertised by any “fitness product” type of thing.
If the government wants to get involved, they should get into selling positive changes. Prohibition didn’t work and neither will taxing obesity, smoking or diabetes.
I know I am a lone wolf here but these states are going broke. What happens when your state goes bankrupt and they cut your Medicaid insurance altogether. I believe people should have personal choice in their life. When I make a bad choice that affects my health I then pay the consequence. Our government makes lots of rulings that affect our choice. If we choose to speed we get a $75 dollar ticket. If we don’t wear a seat belt we can get another fine. Under the new Healthcare Law if I don’t pay many thousands of dollars for expensive insurance I will get a fine. If you don’t pay your taxes by April 15 you get a penalty fine. I’m not saying it is easy to lose weight and I do understand certain meds and insulins may add to the problem. But I think the obesity problem in our country is out of control and costing the health care system billions of dollars. If they can reduce the amount to people going on kidney dialysis, having heart surgeries or having amputations I think they should do it. Private Insurance companies are already doing this, charging you more for behaviors that endanger your health. Now, I would like to see them offer more incentives like adding a free gym membership where if you exercise so many times a week the fee would be waived. I would also like to see informational classes on how to buy and prepare healthier meals that will let you lose weight. I have had to make a lot of changes in my diet since I was dx’d with diabetes. Do I miss bread, potatoes, rice and pasta, you betcha. But I do it because my health is very important to me.
Lets see smoking well not good for you is not against the law, so why fine people for not breaking the law. Also it can be the lesser of 2 evils, have you ever been outside of a AA or NA meeting as a recovering addict I can tell you smoking is a better choice then heroin.
Obesity I have a family member who has Proteus Syndrome and is bed ridden. Part of his weight problem is because of Proteus syndrome and I know quite a few people who are in great shape but following the BMI chart are considered obese, I have yet to meet anyone outside of pro athletes whose doctors go to the extent of putting them in a water tank to get a true BMI measurement
Uncontrolled chronic illness, I can assure anyone on here that there are people on here who listen to everything their DR tells them to do and still can’t get in control.
Ideas such as this are as bad as say lets drug test all people on welfare. Guess what everyone is on some form of welfare, don’t believe me did you go to public school thats welfare, drive on public roads, welfare, Student Loans welfare, Live in a flood plane welfare. The list goes on. In this day and age of Tea Party types scream pseudo Libertarian ideas it makes me sick because they are pragmatic and only look at things that affect them directly, scream small government but god forbid if they don’t like something then the government need to do something about it.(Look at the support I got from the Teaparty council members in my town over my property rights and the city banning chickens). You can’t have it both ways either the government stays out of your business or they are in it. What next fine people who work outside because of increased chances of skin cancer.
I live in AZ, work at a nationally known hospital, I am a diabetic (1.5) but was treated as a Type 2 for many years. Until I went on insulin, nothing worked for me at all. I had a Dr tell me I was the “Worst diabetic he has ever seen” at age 21. I tried like hell to be in control but looking at food made me spike… I guess I was “Out of Control” that bothers me a little bit that I would have to pay because I “was not following Dr. orders and deemed “Non-Compliant”… my mom, is a long time Type-2 that has lost a few toes and heel to bone infection, has no feeling in her feet, problems with her stomach, heart, eyes all due to high BS over the years… To add to it she is mentally ill, an addict, and is on Medicaid lives on less then $700 a month… should she have to pay more for her care… haven’t she paid enough? Her glasses, specialty shoes and podiatry are no longer covered… she gets to see a psychiatrist 2 times a month but that is it…
A band-aid is not going to fix this issue… IMHO, Government stay out of it, allow the medical staff to give the medical treatment needed… in my moms case, a team approach, Mental, Medical, Ancillary a family all need to be involved in her care… and the up most… she need to ‘buy-in” to her care.
Isn’t this the same governor who wants the police to stop all people of color and ask them for your documentation to live in the US? I Think you need to recall this governor. She’s a nutcase!
People act as if there’s no cost to exercise has cost me quite a bit of $$ over the years, probably about $3-4K for martial arts classes, about $9-1200 in running shoes (I try to rotate a pair in about every 200-300 miles so that’s a new pair every 2-3 months at 20-30 miles/ week?) , $250-300 for various running clothes, oh wait, I forgot about the jacket, make it $350-400, $3500 for new teeth after the last major bike accident, a few ER/ prompt care visits for rolled ankles, a torn hamstring and a few other things, maybe $5-6000 in medical costs? While the medical stuff was largely covered by insurance, the other stuff has all been on me.
Perhaps tax deductions for exercise stuff could work but it could also be taken advantage of by affluent people who have the resouces to log health club memberships, personal trainers, etc. Perhaps there could be an income cap on those deductions so anyone making oh I dunno, < $50K/ year or families <$75K can claim those deductions but more affluent folks should lose access to the deduction? All of that would be workable but would require effort and I dont see a politician doing anything that requires effort. A big thing for me and exercise has also been living in two communities with access to first rate running stores, with treadmills and knowledgeable staff to help choose shoes correctly.
When I hit 275#, I got some walking shoes with ankle support and walked 3 miles regularly for a while as I was getting more active in martial arts. A couple years later, I was down to maybe 225 lbs and decided to see if I could run. I was able to run 4 miles, farther than I’d ever run, right out of the gate but the shin splints from the worn out support/stability shoes were BRUTALLY painful!! Back to the store “you need new shoes” so I ran on the treadmill through different combos of shoes and found a great pair that took me to 7th/ 53 in my age group in my first 5K and supported a lot of training up through my black belt and first 1/2 marathon last year. It is very helpful to have access to a store like that but a lot of people will naturally be shy about going to a running store person (most of whom have, in my experience been ectomorphic runners…) and saying “let me put 10 pairs of shoes through their paces on the treadmill”. Whether you are walking or running, this should be a very important part of the program for anyone to get set up for success but, a lot of people simply can’t or won’t do this. This could easily be publicized and running shoe vendors should get some support/ assistance if, all of a sudden, 100 million of us come knocking on their doors? I have found these resources in two different communities but I am not sure that my experience is translatable or not? It seems like it might help people but the political dialogue is hamstrung by it’s need to stupidify analysis like Governor Brewer.
Jeannnie,
Criminalizing behavior to impose fines is not the way to prevent health problems or to save a system from bankruptcy.
Did you ever read Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal?” That was satirical. Sadly Governor Brewer’s plan is not.
The worst part of the problem, as I see it, is that they are going to do it only to Medicaid recipients. Balancing the budget on the backs of those least able to afford it. Does that make any sense at all? Why not up the taxes on the wealthy who CAN afford it? They have too much already – and some of the too much is legislative influence.
When Obama proposed raising taxes only on those who made more than $250,000 a year, the Tea Partiers got average Joes to protest it, but it wouldn’t have affected them at all. So why did they fall for the propaganda machine? Are we a nation of idiots?
What ever happened to being our brothers’ keepers, and charity begins at home and all the other beautiful lessons we were all taught? Have we become so totally selfish that we not only can’t imagine helping those who are less fortunate, but have to actively seek ways to harm them? Last I heard, taking money from the poor for nothing never helped anyone quit smoking or lose weight!
And while you are educated enough to learn about various ideas on eating, most poor people aren’t, and the doctors they see aren’t, and so you can’t use yourself as an example. We are fortunate to have what we do, but poor, uneducated, underserviced people cannot walk in our shoes – we need to learn to walk in theirs.
I feel this just boils down to another tax on the poor. Eating healthy is not cheap, smoking well not cheap is more of a vise of the working class, good healthcare even with insurance is also not cheap. There are so many more useful ways to implement this like encouraging community gardens, less tax on small local providers and the big one making big business truly carry their tax burden.
Agreed (agreeing with Jeannie). And I would be OK with private health insurance having the same kind of rules. There are conditions that a person cannot help (i.e. having diabetes, cancer, thyroid issues), and we shouldn’t penalize people for those - but NOT helping your own situation and expecting everyone else to pick up the tab is not OK in my book.
On the flip-side, I also think that medicade/insurance should pay for as many supplies as a person will effectively use. So, the people that WANT to get better and test 12 times per day will get those strips - etc.
If your stomach can handle it, check out http://front.moveon.org/which-corporations-are-the-biggest-freeloaders/. For starters, General Electric is receiving a $4.1 billion tax rebate, yes billion.
Having been a welfare single mother for several years, I can attest to all you are saying. Fortunately, I never smoked, and wasn’t diagnosed with diabetes until later, but poverty is nerve-wracking in a way the affluent will never know. The sad part is that they don’t want to know, and they don’t want to regard the poor as just as human and deserving as themselves.
I was embarrassed to be using food stamps, because people DID inspect my cart, as if it was any of their business. Judgmentalism is inappropriate in a free society, but rich people do it all the time, and think they are being virtuous for doing so. Help would have been a lot more welcome!
Angela:
Good memo. And one in a very few that doesn’t contain typos!! (I notice that a great deal since I have spent all my teen and adult years (so far) at a keyboard.)
I am in unison with your thoughts on this serious matter. I do not think that everyone will be able to control themselves on a diet and losing weight. I am one that has an A1c of 6.5 the last time and still can’t lose weight. I’m on so darn many meds that it spins my head!! You just can’t start picking out people on the basis of their body. I consider that discrimination!
I wonder if she will pick out people with big mouths and accidentally catch herself in her net???
Lois
You buy the cheapest food, the most processed and unhealthy food, in order to make the $ stretch further. You have in some cases about $3 per meal per person. How can you possibly make a healthy meal with that money? No one can understand it, unless they have done it themselves. Even I don’t understand.
The problem is that you very well MAY be following your doctor’s orders, and they don’t work. Obesity is complex, and simple-minded doctors may not know how to treat it anyway. So you get fined for your doctor’s incompetence. It reminds me of diabetics who follow their doctor’s orders, and continue to see increasing BGs, because the doctor misdiagnosed them in the first place. Doctors are not gods.
Balancing the budget on the backs of the poor is just plain mean.
Jim i agree with you. purchasing foods you can afford usually means the $1 box of mac n cheese. All the super cheap stuff is loaded with carbs and is not good for you.
Its why I am a big fan of growing my own and urban farming. Part of it for me is green but the big thing is being self sufficient
I agree. They should make the doctors that misdiagnose people pay the fines! Medicare won’t pay for hospital acquired infections or additional surgery because a doctor left a sponge in the patient (I know someone that happened to!) so why doesn’t Medicaid start fining doctors for their screwups. It is just plain mean!
@Robert G:
Reading your comment about getting misdiagnosed brings back SO many memories… I was living in Arizona back in 2002 when I was MIS-diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I was lucky to be seeing a doctor that wasn’t too stubborn to accept that he had run out of options to help me manage my diabetes, b/c he ended up referring me to an endo after 5-6 months of trying to help me out without success. It turned out that, like you, I had type 1.5 (LADA) diabetes, so I was being treated for the wrong disease and, no matter how much Metformin I took, I was not gonna be able to control my BGs properly…
The medical system in the US (and in many other places) is not knowledgeable enough about all the causes underlying people’s inability to manage their conditions, to be able to act on it and/or much less penalize them because of it.
The other irony in this whole situation is that I can totally recall how, when I lived in Arizona, I used to literally risk my life to bike to work in the morning, because of the complete lack of bike lanes and, in many places, sidewalks. THAT is something we know to be healthy for people and a means for people to exercise. THAT is something that governments can help fix (you don’t need to be an endocrine expert to know that), yet the focus is being put on the people missing out the environmental component.
Anyway… my two (personal) cents.