Wow that's a 130% increase! But like the saying goes, "it takes what it takes". I'm battling my resistance to what seem like huge jumps to me (I'm used to changing things by .025). I'm scared not to be incremental as I live alone. And there are times this crap seems so random.
Yes, it's very helpful to see other people's experience, thanks. I'm glad you seem to finally be getting yours under control.
Zoe - My total early morning bump starts at around 4AM and is currently about .10 per hour (.45 to .55). I was waking up around 130 or so and the increase was designed to take the numbers down a bit. I haven't had the experience of having to tame 100 point spikes in the middle of the night.
Maurie
Hmmm....that might disqualify you from twin status! Kidding; it's all relative! Thanks for the info
Hi Zoe,
How's it going? I too am having the same problem(s) have been for a while but mine is now lasting all day..ugh! But, that's another issue. It's hard to say because even if we have a slight drop in the middle of the night, that's not actually a true LOW but perceived by the sleeping body as low, per my endo, it can trigger a dump during sleep and cause a high, rebound high in the AM. or one can have smogeyi effect (sp) and also DP. so, if you can, maybe get a trial CGM or do actual basal testing, waking up hourly. i know it's a royal pain but, as we all know,our BG's can move so quickly and it's hard to catch what really may be happening. Hope you can figure it out. Glad you can at least correct down. :)
It's finally beginning to budge, Sarah, yay! I was going to wait to comment until I was where I want to be, but this morning for the first time I was under 200 when I woke up! Never thought I'd be glad to say that! It took some convincing to tell me I actually had DP when I've never had it before, but the timing was actually textbook with what Walsh says. This thread has been very helpful because I was being way too conservative in my raising of basal rates and hearing other people's experience helped. I wasn't clear from your post about the dynamics of your endo appointment if you, in the end, got some good input, but I hope so and I hope your numbers are starting to come down too. I keep getting the message over and over again to not waste so much time trying to understand WHY my BG is off, but just to "treat the problem" (by tweaking doses).
OH, I'm SO GLAD for you. I know, right. We wake up to a good number (or at least better) and it's like winning the frickin lottery..ha! So, DP, per Walsh starts about 12am, is that correct? My endo discussed this with me too, cause I'm having the same problem at night (well, I don't know what it is and I have a CGM which looks like a roller coaster in the middle of the night - ha!) but he said DP doesn't start at 12am, that's not dawn yet? so confused.
Yeah, don't look for answers, sometimes there aren't any, just get these pesky little buggers down, relentless intruders that they are. :)
Walsh says it starts between 1 and 3. I think a lot of people have the misconception it doesn't happen until right before you wake up. But it sounds like you are having highs at different times. Sounds like your basal might be too low, but it's pretty hard to regulate basal using MDI.
I actually responded in your post about the "f bomb" as your issue does sound different.
With the pump and cgm... my endo and I have gotten to 5 changes
12:00am 1.7
2:30am 1.9
6:00am 1.8
10:00am 0.6
10:00pm 1.2
This program seems to be working for me. But as you can see big difference during the day and night.
Good luck!
Thanks, IChoose!
Zoe, I have a strong dawn phenomenon always have. This was a bugger to deal with on shots. Here are my basal rates.
Midnight - 1.4
03 am - 2.25
07 am - 1.7
11 am - 1.4
6 pm - 1.7
I’ve actually had to go higher on the 03 to 07 am segment but for now this seems to be working.
Diana
Interesting data. You are hitting basil at 3:00am. Quite logical.
I run my metformin so it targets 12:30 amd to 5:30 am. That is up to strength in blood and for me due to bad liver signalling Metformin nails it back. To achieve that I take dose of 500 mg at 10:00pm and another at 12:00 am midnight.
I have watched my body on fingerprick caveman machine and multiple pricks and cgms and I found that dawn effect really kicks into gear at 3:00 am. 1 am would be 110 anad at 3:00am it would be 150 and 238 by 8 am.
Apparently your liver is watching insulin and having sufficient basil at 3am kicks liver's butt.
thank you for sharing.
Thanks, Diana. Very helpful to know it's not crazy to increase so much. Tonight I'm up to .850 from an earlier level of 600. I was increasing by .100 but got chicken and slowed down. We'll see how it goes!
good luck, zoe...here's hoping for a good glucose night for the both of us and we can wake up and feel like we're gaining some control over this.
For what it is worth My ideal night ; can count on my fingers how often this happens Wed June 19 ..I am as inconsistent as the weather : 12 am basal .625
12.51 BG 5.5 ( x 18 )
2 am basal .425
4.33 am BG 6.8 ( x 18 )
5 am basal .500
8 am basal .350
8.23 BG 5.1 ( x 18 )
etc. etc.
Next is a set change and who knows what will happen ( I know i should have done ealier but did n't ) ...no shortage of finger poking :) Sleep well all !
I would stay up all night or wake myself up and see when it rises this might help figure out what is going on.. Could there be something wrong with the pump somewhere that is affecting it at night? I would also not go to sleep at 130 because you can wake up so high, better to go to sleep around 90-100 then hopefully you won't wake up so high.. I'm on mdi and up all night usually, so I do have a snack then and this may help control my dp.. which is variable.. lately I've been going low a lot "maybe" from a 2 point increase in basal we did to stop morning spikes, lol.. I'm not sure really, and maybe something causing insulin sensitivity.. but I'm still spiking at times.. I have gotten into the habit of taking insulin corrections before I normally spike now, but today I didn't do that as I had two morning hypos.. and I didn't test in time so then I spiked twice.. hope you get this figured out..
Thanks for your input, guys! This morning only down by 10 points, but down is good! All this time when I read about DP on here, I didn't take it seriously because it didn't apply to me (human, I guess). I can't believe how big the increases are needed. Where normally I tweak my basals by .025 now I'm doing .100 increments and so far I'm at +.250 (40% for me) and counting! I wouldn't have had the nerve to do this without everyone's input!
Girlie, I had to change my morning basals upward as well. I think is is just our "maturity"LOL that adds to the possible morning insulin resistance and DP.
God Bless.
Brunetta
I didn't even think of that, Brunetta! Can I ask what percent increase you have? As of tonight I'll be at 50% - though it seems some on here are 100% or higher increase!
35% higher at 4:00 am. 8-10 am.is 20% higher.
thern back to my regular rate of .775 units per hour. May have to lower that to .75 for my active afternoon,s though. Basal testing is such a JOY LOL
Thanks! Not bad! I'm trying not to think about how I feel about using more insulin. I know...it's the results that matter!
Several people have confirmed that they too developed DP all of a sudden when they hadn't had it for years. Does anyone ever undevelop it?