Links are welcome as long as they’re relevant and not commercial link spam. That sounds eminently relevant, on topic and interesting. If you have a direct link feel free to post it.
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Hehehe, @Robert117. Your a solid professional. Thats the way to do it.
I am also a survivor of mental health ‘treatment’
Funny how they like to constantly compare mental illness to diabetes and heart disease but people with those conditions never get locked up and abused/punished by staff.
Take a look online for a thing called the psychiatric survivors movement.
You are not alone, they abuse most people meanwhile wile the public has been convinced what goes on in those hospitals is “help”.
Thankyou everyone that posted stuff for me in this thread.
As heartless and souless as that system is I don’t think I am going to do jail. No one was injured and the so called victim doesn’t want anything happening to me.
I guess if anyone has more information as to what goes on post it as jail and diabetes will continue to be a reality for many of people.
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One thing to be aware of - is that if your BG < 80, you can be taken in against your will. They can hold you in an ambulance or a hospital.
I’ve heard you say that before but at least anywhere I’ve been it is absolutely not true. You have the absolute right to refuse medical care in all but the most extreme circumstances. (Eg court order signed by a judge)
I’d pitty the emt who tried to “take me against my will” because my bg was 79. I’d have every right to defend myself with force in that case up to any level necesssary to prevent myself from being kidnapped.
A police officer in the small town where I grew up was murdered by a mentally ill person. The judge in that case ordered that he be medically treated to make him fit to stand trial. He refused the medical care. It went all the way to the state Supreme Court and took 6 years for it to be approved for him to be forced medical care against his will… and this was for someone who had murdered a police officer in front of many people, not someone who had a blood sugar below 80… medical treatment against someone’s will is not done lightly
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Not exactly on topic, but until recently EMT’s in PA could not test blood sugar. They could ask Joe Blow walking by to do it, but they could not. I believe Joe Blow is protected by good Samaritan and such. How bizarre is that?
Are you kidding, almost every hospital has a psychiatric lockup and they routinely violate both civil and human rights of those unfortunate enough to be subjected to “help”.
They just say danger to self and others or “agitation” and the goons come and tackle them pull down their pants and violate them with a hypo full of nueroleptic drugs , Haldol ect.
Whole organizations exist trying to stop the atrocities hidden behind psychiatric locked doors such as https://mindfreedom.org/
Everyday Horrors of the Mental Health System Everyday Horrors of the Mental Health System
People think one flew over the cuckoos nest was about the ‘old days’ ya right, things haven’t changed at all.
They are a front for the pharmaceutical industry and other corporate profiteers Foundation and Corporate Support | Mental Health America
They do everything they can to push psychiatric pills and block alternative treatments.
Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants.
Its been my experience that individuals with mental illness have WAY more freedom to refuse care than we do. I think its because ADA doesn’t lawyer. NAMI and the epileptic orgs know how to push back via the courts. It is simply not something that our diabetic community does very well, in my opinion. We have other strengths. They do not enter into the courts or the law.
Protocol is 79. It is what it is.
Joe Blow off the street has way more protection through Good Samaritan. Remember, one law suit ends their careers, whether or not it is a justified lawsuit and regardless of if they are found not guilty.
The psychiatric care thing is complex. You absolutely can force someone to receive care if they are in imminent danger to themselves or others (for example, giving an injection of haldol to sedate someone trying to attack staff/other patients—it’s also safer and better practice generally than applying physical restraints, which should be done only when absolutely necessary) or with a court order. However, for example, someone in a hospital setting who is psychotic but not assaulting staff can absolutely refuse meds. You cannot force medication simply to make someone lucid.
It is a reasonable extension along those lines to be able to force treatment on an uncooperative hypoglycemic diabetic. I don’t know where the cut-off is (I am guessing in practice, it’s largely dealt with situation by situation, and not with draconian application of the 79 cut-off), but certainly I think we would all agree that someone with a blood sugar of 40, say, who is being aggressive and refusing help should be forced to have a glucagon shot, since likely the aggressiveness etc is a symptom of their state and if their expressed wishes were respected, they could die.
In practice, its MUCH easier to declare a diabetic unfit to make decisions than it is for someone with mental illness. You can do it in 5 minutes. Whereas mental illness hospitalization is pretty difficult in the US. There are costs and benefits to each of the different paradigms. Its a difference between how we view the paradigm on “mental health” vs “physical health.” But, they overlap in that mental and physical health are not mutually exclusive.
But If I was anywhere near in my right mind (which I personally would be in at well below 40) I’d have every right to refuse to even let an emt check my blood sugar unless I actually wanted their help and assistance. Nothing would be done “against my will”
And if they did check it and it was, say, 50… they sure as hell wouldn’t be “taking me” anywhere unless I agreed to it
Granted if I was “a danger to myself or others” because of my low blood sugar I suppose that might be different… like if I was trying to cut my arm off with a saw or was chasing someone around with a bat because I had lost my mind as a result of low blood sugar… but I’ve certainly never been anywhere near that point. My blood sugar goes low sometimes, I eat candy, life goes on. I’d still defend myself with all necessary force to prevent myself from being kidnapped.
NAMI and Eli Lilly killed 200,000 people wile making billions pushing Zyprexa http://www.whale.to/a/eli_lilly.html
I would like to hear about that experience. I survived psychiatry and spent alot of time helping others escape it. I want to learn the issues with diabetes and do some activism but I don’t even know where to start.
Sure, but then they would have no reason to do anything. It’s not like EMTs go around spot-checking random people, which is the scenario it seems like you’re suggesting? However, if in the course of treating you for whatever, they checked your blood sugar and discovered it was 40, it would be entirely reasonable for them to insist on your accepting some sort of treatment for it.
I’m just responding to mohe’s statement that they can “take you against your will”
Yes if you dial 911 and say you need an ambulance and emergency medical care and they arrive they can tell you you need to be treated at a hospital. (You’d still have right to refuse). I don’t agree with mohe that this is “against your will” if you request emergency medical care…
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Right but say you tripped and hit your head and someone called 911 and they showed up, and you agreed to let them check you out, and then somehow (either they test you or you test), it becomes known to all that you are 40. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for it to not be allowed for you to refuse treatment for the low at that time, even if you seem cognitively intact, because a.) you very well may not be, for all they know, since hypoglycemia absolutely affects cognitive functioning and they can’t determine that in a decisive way, and b.) not treating it is essentially an act of harm against the self. Now I realize probably you’d be fine with eating someone and waiting a moment for your blood sugar to go up to show that and it would be fine. But if you didn’t, then yes, I think forcing intervention against your will then seems entirely reasonable.
If I said “oh my blood sugar is low I just need to drink some juice and I’ll be fine—- see I have juice right here for that reason” and they said “you are coming with us whether you like it or not” I would resist with force. And I would not be doing anything wrong by doing so. If they were able to “force me” against my will I would press charges for assault and kidnapping
If it was clear that I was having a medical emergency and was cognitively impaired to the point that I was unable to respond appropriately to it… eg I was saying “look my blood sugar is 40 and that just means I need to put my underwear on my head and I’ll be fine” then that might be a different situation