Did I Miss Something?

Food Nutrition
1

Recently, I’ve been reading such comments as


"I eat oatmeal in the morning because it only raises me 60 pts... My dietitian says this is horrible, but I do it anyway."

Am I missing something? When the hell did going up 60 pts from eating anything become acceptable???? Isn't good control also about our standard deviation, and not just about staying under a number? Why in the world would anyone think going up 60 pts so suddenly from a cereal to be acceptable control???

Please help me get it.
2

Don’t get me started…My diabetic brother takes my mother “out for a sandwich” all the time. My mother thought it was ok to buy him a candy dish for his desk and fill it with diabetic candy. It drives me crazy! I’ll be honest - this is the first group that I feel comfortable to be with because I just don’t get what kind of advice people are following or not following. My brother also ate a cookie in front of me just to show that I’m a nut for following the low carb regime that I do. My jaw just dropped open!

3

You’re not missing anything. Standard deviation is definitely important.

4

“Only 60 pts.” Or, I was 180 at 1 hour, but great at 150 after two hours. Never mind that BG doubled in one hour & was still high at two hours pp. Devastating the guidelines people are given & also that they take their doctor’s word as gospel. Don’t believe people are told anything about SD. Endos barely glance at log sheets, if they look at them at all. Though, I wonder if they actually took the time that they’d even bother to look at anything but lows.

Sad to hear over & over that T1s are instructed to go to bed over 140 & that they should raise their BG if it’s under 140. Insane. If someone is having dangerous lows overnight, then basal is too high. Easier for to docs to tell people to eat than to help them figure out proper doses. They’re obsessed with patients having lows because of liability.

My mother was recently at a luncheon. A woman at her table was diabetic. She asked if the tea was sweetened because she couldn’t have sugar. She ate the potatoes & bread:)

5

I need to be the devils advocate here. So here goes…



We know better right? I mean we’ve essentially found a way that works for us to keep our BGs low and relatively even. Heck with low carb, Ive never had such tight control. But heres the thing. There is 25,000 different doctors with opinions on D and how to handle it. Who knows who the hell to listen to. thats first.



Next, when you have medically trained professionals (I know you hate that term Liz =^D ) who in our society are the people that are supposed to know and help you deal with health issues, it takes a lot to say “no your wrong.” Now, we by the BGs that result from what we eat, may find that our method works for us. But can we convince others of this? I mean, I bought Dr B’s book based on the recommendation of you folks on this site. But, if I hadnt posted the thread and hadnt found TU and wasnt at the point that I needed to be in control. It wouldnt have happened and I would have kept buying the "go to bed at 170, but bring your A1c under 7.6."



I think we each have our own reasons of why we have the ability to change our lifestyles to accommodate this beast as we have, but that just means we need to help others along the way like Gerri or FHS has with me. Then they to can gain the control we are one step closer to having. I dunno. I know its tough to do. Ive been that person who hated the fact that I couldn’t take care of myself, but now I can and I am. But I dont want to knock others who cant, I guess I just want to show them its possilble for them to do it too.



Ok, sorry I went way too mushy there. This “My dietitian says this is horrible, but I do it anyway” is just lame (wanna trade retinas?). Then again, people still smoke and drink dont they? Also, a 60 point spread may be bad, but like I said having a Dr. who society says is the perspm who should be taking care of you, tell you that hurting yourself is ok, is an easy one to swallow.

6

If I had a fasting of 80, ate a pint of oatmeal, went to a peak of 140 and then came back down below 100 at 2 hours, I would consider that within the bounds of “eating to my meter.” I know this is the Dr. B forum, and I am certainly a Dr. B disciple, and I know Dr. B advocates a tighter level of control. But we must take things in context.



Dr. B makes his recommendations focused on insulin based control and achieving the “law of small numbers.” What if this person is T2? Everything we understand suggests that such a blood sugar excursion minimizes risks and is actually a normal response (see below from Blood Sugar 101).



And finally, I actually believe in the "use it or lose it" theory of our bodies. Our bodies adapt to challenges, lift heavy weight, your muscles grow, demand insulin and it is not unreasonable to think that might cause your beta cells to grow.

Keep in mind that what my dieticians have suggested, a 60g of carb breakfast, would raise me 120-180 mg/dl, on top of my generally crappy morning fasting of 140 mg/dl would leave me over 300 mg/dl. Enough of a stress on my body that without insulin I would be an uncontrolled diabetic in a short period of time. Just some thoughts.
7

Not a Type 2, and not exactly the greatest a1c… so I guess you would be okay with just rising 60 pts from any one meal?

8

Personally, I only like my BG up in the morning if I an getting behind the wheel of a car. ( the same any time I am driving.) I have never eaten a full serving of oatmeal for several years. The last time I did, my BG at lunch was 198mgdl. It took me till bedtime to get my BG down to 120mgdl. From then on, I eat oatmeal at a half serving plus a 1/2 serving of milk and fruit. I almost believe this person is in DENIAL of Diabetes. I know I was when I was diagnoses in 1976 and stayed there for two years. Then when I realized what my mother ( a diabetic ) was doing to herself, I WOKE UP. All of TuDiabetes people are here for this person. So whom ever you are let us extend a hand to you.

9

But Dr. B suggests that 1g of carbs may cause a rise of 5-10 mg/dl. Thus a 12 g breakfast may cause a 60-120 mg/dl rise without insulin. I’m just sayin.



And yes, in general Dr. B recommends a much more controlled variance in your blood sugar control, but most of us may aspire to that level of control but we choose a different balance, accepting somewhat looser control in order to achieve a wider range of things we can eat

10

Y’all remindin me to throw out my nearly full oatmeal box from 2006. Hope nothing more is in it but I’ll bag it for the waste in case.

11

I’m throwing mine out too… must be 4 years old as well! why do I keep it around???

12

You could make a custom face mask or foot scrub with it. hahaha

13

Love oatmeal, that is way I use 1/2 serving with 1/2 cup of milk when I eat it. Can not complain about my Bg for lunch time. A 60 Gm breakfast would last me til dinner.

Speaking of Carbs, what are you all using to count your Carbs… I have one, put out by Nordisk. Any suggestions on a good one that is free or not to expensive. Mine does not included all of the things I eat and most books have different Carb. amounts. The amounts are also different from the Nutrition Labels of foods.

What is the best way to go? Chele

14

I use a combination of the carb factor calculation, with food labels, and NutritionData.com… I also have these carb cards I carry in my purse, with the most common foods… (from http://www.carbcards.com) ALSO, many restaurants have nutrition info online that one can research before going places… and Eat This! Not That! also has info on some of the bad/worst entrees and restaurants, and nutrition info that sometimes they would like for us not to know… :confused:

I can’t handle oatmeal at breakfast, unless I go jogging right away… and if I time the jogging wrong, I will be high. I have to wait like exactly 40 minutes from when I took my first bite, or else I will spike. I can’t go at 30, and I can’t go later than 40. It’s the goldie locks window, I guess. The best way to go is the way that makes things easier for us, in my opinion… A method that keeps us consistently watching the carbs.

15

Gosh, I’m LADA and have been managing all of this by diet and exercise so far, but I really don’t think that I could even consider eating a starch of any kind. I haven’t done so for over a year, now. I get thirsty immediately. Extra celery in my tuna salad is about as wild as I get with the carbs. At this point, I don’t ever look up carbs because I have an internal sense of what I can eat, and it isn’t a whole lot. I try to make my precious carbs be good ones, like brussel sprouts in my eggs - delicious. I will have to be on insulin soon, but I’m still a 5.5, my worst number so far.

16

I agree with bsc. Most of us ‘cheat’ because who can be that disciplined in their diet?

Prior to my last a1c of 5.3 (without any meds!), I had bs spikes into the 200+ range after eating some meals.

I believe that it is a time versus concentration of bs that is what nails you.
Sorta like being exposed to radiation.

Low doses over a long time are bad. High doses over a short time are bad too.

I suggest drinking about 2 quarts (liters) of water when about to eat one of those meals that you know are bad. Then wait 1/2 hour after eating and get on a treadmill or go for a brisk walk.

Even if you do spike, the numbers drop fast because of the exercise and water.

When your doctor can answer both of these 2 questions, then they are worth hanging on to for treatment.

  1. How long does it take for hemoglobin to glycate?
  2. How many water molecules does it take to move 1 glucose molecule?
17

So whats the answer?

I’ll take a stab after a quick Google search.

  1. Essentially instantly because it happens when the cell is formed.
  2. 6 (but please don’t ask me for a detailed exposition on the Krebs cycle)
18

They weren’t cheating… this is their regular diet… This is not a low carber we’re talking about. They eat this cus they think it’s healthy and good…

19

That might just be something for Type 1’s, or with fast carbs or something… Cus honestly, I NEVER spike that much from 1 gram of carbs… My postprandials are rarely over 28-30 pts. Usually, it’s just 20 pts. Now, if I ate a serving of oatmeal… I would be anywhere from 160-180 mg/dL… from an 80s postprandial. Lots worse if I was at a 100s postprandial.

20

You are correct on #2, but number 1 is incorrect.

No one knows how long it takes for hemoglobin to glycate (trick question). But it is not instantly, from personal experience. When I can have spikes into the 200’s frequently, and drink water then exercise it off, I managed to get my a1c down from 6.8 to 5.7 to 5.8 then down to 5.3. The water/exercise method can drop me 100 points in an hour.

Studies are being done right now to determine the time frame.

With my method, I can eat nearly anything I want. Even a cinnamon roll!

I do have insulin now to help with the spikes as I can’t do as much exercise lately.
However, I still try to exercise when using insulin. It makes it work much better.

One time I dosed for a meal, but soon after I got a call. I went to help them do some physical stuff (moving boxes I think). Instead of my blood sugar being around 100, it dropped to 34.

Hydration and exercise (hard physical aerobic & strength) will go a loooonnnggg way to helping control the disease.

If I choose to (rarely though), I can eat an almost unlimited amount of ‘bad foods’. The only price I pay is higher blood sugars for a bit and a lot of weight gain.

When I don’t use insulin, I can lose weight at a rate of 2 to 5 pounds just by sleeping.

DWQ: are you saying that you never ‘cheat’ on your diet? Not even once? Maybe sneak a bite of something bad to avoid the dietary boredom? Or just because you missed it?

I have had spikes into the 275 range after eating, but the next day, same meal, same pattern, I spike significantly lower.

It might have something to do with moon phase since some animals (certain crabs) have the same problem during the full moon.
Interesting theory though…