Food for thought about the extreme measures re: Coronavirus

Agreed 10,000%

Droplet protocol is what all the hospitals are following so hopefully that’s adequate

We are kindred spirits in that respect, I am also a wood butcher, I have built for myself a large very well equipped shop that I planned to use in my retirement, My sons have taken it over to run a part time cabinet shop.

We do have VOC type masks in our shop used for spraying finishes but I question how effective they would be against a virus, besides I would look very silly going out in public wearing one of those bad boys.

LOL! Remember the pol that showed up in the congressional chamber the other day wearing a cartridge mask (full or 1/2 face–can’t recall)

Yeah, but the government officials aren’t acting on their own. They all have health ministers or similar, who are experts or who are working with people who are experts, and are advising on how best to proceed. If the government officials were acting on their own, then there would probably be no world shutdown, and we’d be in for a far worse scenario than we’re already preparing for.

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You’re right, that is just one country.

My post was a news article that was stating that a department that would have helped my country was dismissed.

I guess I should’ve simply stated that rather than linking to the source. I’m not sure how a source could state that without indicating how awful that is.

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The dow should have never gone to where it did -

Re the distinction between officials and experts: my understanding is that government officials are supposed to have staffs made up of experts who know the technical stuff, and the officials are supposed to listen to them and try to make good decisions based on sound research. It seems the model now is that all expertise is suspect, so go with your gut. I think it’s a flawed model.

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Problem with N95 masks is that you can’t just slip them on like procedure masks. Most people don’t know how to fit them properly, rendering them useless. (True, many people wear procedure masks incorrectly as well.) And if you grow facial hair or lose weight or something else that alters your face a bit, you may well need a different size or model. Health Canada and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration in the US require initial training and an annual fit test for employees required to use them. NIOSH estimates that 10% of N95 wearers fail their fit test after just one year.

I believe it would be hard for any country to prepare for something like this. Not one other country has been either. You can’t necessarily have a test for a virus you don’t know what to test for yet. You can’t have a vaccine yet. And no way could you buy enough medical supplies for the mass amount that is turning out is needed. They would have to be replaced and updated constantly and the cost would have been astronomical, especially considering they never expected this to happen anyways.

So things have to be frantically made as fast as possible and mistakes will be made. No one in our modern era has dealt with this before. The closest thing to it was the Spanish Flu and travel wasn’t as easy, populations weren’t as crowded and medical intervention/solves weren’t around.

Now there have been people saying we were ripe for a bad pandemic, they believe there is a lot of viruses in wild animals and domestic animals that are waiting to jump to people. But people didn’t and still don’t want to believe it.

You can’t fully prepare, but it’s why there was literally a NSC pandemic response unit created (and then unfortunately disbanded), because there is a lot you can do federally, and then that team is essential to coordinate all the efforts that take place once things are in motion to make them as effective and efficient as possible. The testing kits were a fiasco and could have been done better. Policies could have been implemented faster. This has been clearly coming for a long time (my very informed anxious mother had been pushing me to stock up for a likely quarantine period for the past month at least), yet the government largely dismissed/downplayed it, instead of encouraging people to, in a reasonable fashion, stock up much early so it wasn’t all a mad dash. Travel bans should have been enacted sooner. And many other things.

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Well, it is what it is and lets just deal with the new reality.

Except the new reality, especially with climate change, means this is definitely going to happen again, once this pandemic ends, so probably really important to learn what we can from the experience and what it means for government.

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Please keep climate change comments out of the discussion.

I refuse to act as though clear cut scientific fact isn’t so. We don’t ask people to do that with medical science that is consensus they personally dislike or disagree with. Please feel free to ignore if it makes you uncomfortable.

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Also climate change is not only scientific fact, it’s scientific fact that has a direct bearing on health, which is what this forum is about. Again, feel free to ignore it if you prefer!

From the World Health Organization, re: climate change and infectious disease:
https://www.who.int/globalchange/climate/summary/en/index5.html

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Weird, I thought this was a thread about using reliable data for public health decisions.

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Create your own thread about climate change if that’s on your mind. It is inappropriate to keep pursuing it here.

Although the market drop gets lots of press, a big risk to our economy, besides the loss of jobs and business, is the large volume of low-quality debt…

Although data can help, one needs to know how to behave under uncertainty. Taleb, known for his risk management expertise and for popularizing the concept of the black swan event - fat tails of the distribution, rare events that are more likely to occur than typically estimated - criticizes the idea of individuals seeming rationality as being systemically risky.