god, it’s like the conduct police on this site sometimes. you all can believe and say whatever you want. i don’t mind. debate can be interesting and educational. helps you refine your own beliefs/arguments too;)
i like you all despite, and sometimes because of, your beliefs. i’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being polite either!
OH i didn’t even read the earlier posts…whoops…
Ok. Let me apologize for jumping on your case. Everybody needs to make their own choices on these matters. But please understand you responded to a thread on Dr. B’s diet from Diabetes Solution, recommendations in direct conflict with the Eat to Live Fuhrman diet. You said you had not read the book and then criticized it. I have read Eat to Live, Reversing Diabetes as well as the China study and follow the recent assessments by Denise Minger (http://rawfoodsos.com/). I have opinions and lashed out at you. I was out of line for getting on your case as I did, and I’m sorry.
Diet seems to be the classic way to get a heated discussion going on these diabetes forums. Thanks to Lizmari for putting it all in perspective. We all need to respect each others choices.
Oh, I didn’t realize you needed a much higher intake of protein with a low carb diet. Sorry for the not helpful input. I don’t eat low carb (about 100 per day).
LOL. I used to love raw egg shakes as a kid. Although, I tossed in Ice cream for flavor =^)
I think youve recommended that brand before to me. I was out getting dinner with the wife last night and happened to be near a vitamin shoppe so we stopped in and picked up some packages. They recommended the Jay Robb stuff as it was “all natural” with a bit of stevia. Its not bad, but I think next Ill try the NOW brand. Thanks Rocky!
ON Optimum Whey is the best ive ever had taste wise and nutrition wise… other then that taste wise id say muscle milk heh
Well said Lizmarie.
To add, we all hail from different regions and this has a lot to do with how our body deals with certain foods. This means we are all going to be different. Also I may not handle carbs as well as someone else in regards to insulin, bolusing, portion, etc.
Also, as far as I understand the Bernstein diet (or at least what Im taking from it) is to eat things that cause less fluctuation in BS. So a combination of low carb plant, protein, and fat is the basis.
ON Optimum Whey is the best ive ever had taste wise and nutrition wise… other then that taste wise id say muscle milk heh
Emily, Id be curious to know where you get your proteins from. Is it tough abstaining from meats?
Good to know my mom wasn’t the only one.
Off to go punch out some beef carcasses!
oh, I really wasn’t offended at all! really. but thanks for the kind response. i’m all for people making their own food choices, including eating animals. i was just curious why he wanted to eat more protein and if that is what that book focuses on. who cares if i read the book or not; i was honest and just offering another perspective. a diet that focuses on any kind of animal protein would be pointless to me to read since i’m a vegan (but didn’t feel it important to point that out in this discussion)-for ethical reasons but selfishly and equally so for health reasons. it’s a diet that makes me feel healthiest, which is what i’d want for everyone (to feel their healthiest).
curious what you make of the china study??
Well said Liz. You put that very nicely. Thanks!
I wasn’t really implying that just because one eats a lot of meat that they will automatically have high cholestrol - I know it can be genetic too. A vegan friend of mine who is a doctor has high cholestrol but she said it is better since she went from veg to vegan. So that works for her. I was just trying to counteract the statement that being veg will negatively effect your health because as we all know too much saturated animal fat can be bad for the cholestrol. Vegan do eat some saturated fats - chocolate and coconut both have saturated fat.
Just to clarify, I am NOT a member of PETA even though I support ethical choices in animal rights - I don’t agree with their tactics. I have never pushed my diet on anyone. It just bothers me when people see “vegetarian or vegan” and automatically assume radical PETA member and it is not so. In Fact, I don’t think Gabriel Cousens is a PETA member. I don’t want to be called “ONE OF THOSE”. To me, that is like saying I am a terrorist because of my diet.
Anyhow, sorry to get off topic with your thread onesaint - protein is definately a worthy topic for us diabetics. I am glad people can see their is more than one way to go about it. And there are lots of ideas out there and many ways to do this for everyone, no matter what diet they follow. 
Actually Dr. B recommends levels of protein consistent with the USDA, about 75g. He suggest increasing protein to gain weight and reducing to lose weight. I eat higher protein, as does onesaint. Dr. B does not recommend vegetarian/vegan, but works with patients who choose that. His view is that you should not confuse ethics with health (that is his view). He advocates a very low carb, modest protein and high fat diet.
As to the China study, I was disturbed by what I perceived as a biased tone when I first read the book, but could not see anything wrong with it when I read it. The data used for the analysis is now publicly available and has been examined in detail. The link to Denise Minger I gave you earlier (http://rawfoodsos.com/) has some detailed examination. Denise is a former vegetarian and raw foodie and actually very sympathetic to the issues that concern you. She has really done some good work on the same data and her results refute some of the key points in the China study and instead suggest that wheat is highly correlated with health risks.
Very true badmoon, thanks. I am glad your cholestrol is good. Everything in moderation.
thanks for the info. i’m going to check it out.
I actually flipped through Neil Bernard book which is vegan after seeing him on an infomercial shortly after being diagnosed and I thought “Hmmm, better check his book out - Cool its vegan!”, this was about 3 months after I was doing low carb vegan and I was surprised to see that the recipes and recommendations in his book were HIGHER carb than I was eating! Therefore, I didn’t buy the book. I think his book is more for people who are not veg or vegan already and are just beginning on path. Me, I am an old pro so wasn’t worth my bucks.
I did browse Bersteins book at the used book store and online and although it had lots of interesting sounding info - it wasn’t really telling me anything I didn’t know already and there wasn’t too much new that I could apply to myself which is why I didn’t buy and read the whole thing.
I do have Gabriel Cousens book and since it more closer to what I am doing now - I found it more useful. I don’t do an all raw diet (and he doesn’t approve of soy for protein) but it did have some useful info (stuff on diet and genetic for diabetics) that I liked which is why I bought that book.
Haven’t looked into Fuhrmans yet but after looking at several diabeteic diet books - I find my own way - my personalized crafted diet works best for me. I’ll call it the Krazy KimKat DVdiet. (DV = Diabetic Vegan).
I actually tried to eat some dairy after I was diagnosed (organic rennetless anti-hormone stuff from WF!), because I was worried about my protein (still figureing the diet part out then) and i was weak and I couldn’t handle it. I got bad earaches and super phlemy throat so no go with the dairy for me. I think I have become lactose intolerant. I have no desire to go back to eating meat. I would feel too guilty. I guess I doing pretty good for now - on the diet I have made for myself. On good days, I can get 50 grams of protein and still be low carb and honestly, that was more protein than I was eating before I was diagnosed! I think our bodies evidentally tell us what it likes and what it doesn’t like. I don’t expect everyone to thrive on a vegan diet but I definately know it is possible!
Hi onesaint,
There are lots of ways to get some non-meat protein. Believe it or not, the higher carb veg foods don’t really have any of good quality or measure of protein (you know like bread, pasta, potatoes) - those get chucked in my book. There are good quality proteins in many plants although albeit a smaller amount. Depending on what studies/ books you read, some scientists/researchers/doctors think that some plant proteins are more readily assimilated by the body than some animal proteins (meaning the body can often to put them to better use than animal proteins).
For me, I eat a lot nuts, nut butters (these have some protein and fats), seeds, avocadoes, soy protein (organic only for me because gmos have studied to be a hazard to diabetics), beans, tofu, tempeh, hummus, hemp and vegan protein drinks. (right now I have a vegan protein drink made with rice protein and no sugar - 14 grams of protein and only 7 carbs a serving! has other helpful vitamins and nutrients too - comes in a tastey chocolate flavor). True, these things don’t have as much protein as meat but they do still have useable protein. If you are doing Bernstein diet, you are looking to have more protein based on his calculations, I don’t think any vegans would be able to achieve the recommended proteins for his diet unless they had 5 vegan protein shakes a day! (depends on your weight too). It is definately a carnivores diet.
For myself, I have never found that I need that much protein. I am doing muscle building right now (keep in mind that I am tiny though) and things are going fine for me. My muscles are building and no meat!There are actually vegan atheletes and body builders that have huge muscles (Robert Cheeke is a popluar vegan athlete/body builder- he has a book about it- he isn’t diabetic though as far as I know) and no meat was required to get that way! So it is possible - just a different way to go is all!
Oh, just an add, Robert Cheeke doesn’t all those high carb bready foods. He eats lots of greens, veggie and the other vegan proteins I mentioned above so he is more on the low carb side of things anyhow. As most body builders think - refined foods go straight to the waist in fat!
I still love that running scene in Rocky when he goes up the steps - makes me want to start moving! LOL!
I had that thought when I was at the Philly museum (guess most people do!), but quickly decided to just walk. Man, that’s a lot of steps.