Beth, good finds on the articles! You are absolutely right in your understanding. The second paper in China, on normal subjects, mentions the following results:
On average, the glucose normals surveyed spent 4.1% of their time over 140 mg/dl, and 2.4% of their time under 70 mg.dl.
The overall 24-hour average BG of glucose normals was 104 mg/dl.
These are for normal individuals with no history of diabetes – even better than that, in fact:
clinically stable condition with no previous medical history of diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidemia, coronary artery diseases, or cerebral stroke;
fasting plasma glucose <100 mg/dl and 2-h plasma glucose (2-h PG) <140 mg/dl after a 75-g oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT), according to 2008 American Diabetes Association diabetes diagnostic criteria (7);
normal BMI between 18.5 and 24.9 kg/m2, according to 2004 World Health Organization obesity diagnostic criteria (8);
triglycerides <150 mg/dl and HDL cholesterol ≥40 mg/dl, according to 2007 Chinese guidelines on prevention and treatment of dyslipidemia (9); and 5) systolic pressure <140 mmHg and diastolic pressure <90 mmHg (10)
So the criteria for selecting this normal population ended up with a very diabetes-healthy set of subjects. The facts that they still average over 100 and spend time every day over 140 are pretty strong indications that both are normal (the caveat, of course, is that this is for China).
I wonder, if for example the Chinese study was based on “plasma glucose” readings instead of “whole blood glucose” readings and as a result they are 15 to 20 percent higher than the numbers we commonly quote?
Again the lab-to-lab and fingertip-to-fingertip variabilities I think are often ignored by folks who are more used to numbers that are always accurate out to two decimal points like accountants deal with.
The current blood glucose meters are calibrated to give a plasma glucose reading anyway I think. The contour next definitely is which is what I have been using.
Yes I know the study is China but it made me feel fractionally better that not everyone is waking around at 83 and never going above 90 as dr Bernstein suggests!
Good! In addition, remember that Bernstein’s 83 doesn’t come from a scientific study at all. He only tested a bunch of meter salesmen, hardly a representative sample of the population. So that’s that.
Interesting. So not that many are in the low 80s… high 80s looks more common.
I checked my daughter once today. We went out for a slightly less than healthy meal (son’s choice, it was a reward!) and she had some fries and pizza. Didn’t eat it all of course but I’d say about 50g carbs at a rough guess. At two hours she was 94. I’d like it to have been a bit lower but the food is quite fatty so I assume slow released. At two hours I am at 236. I haven’t been any higher than that but it hasn’t come down yet either (wearing a libre so I know that the 236 is as bad as its got but it’s taken a while to get there)
you need to stop…get some help. These frequent finger sticks that have not been ordered by your physician and done on your own after your physician stated her results are OK can be deemed as abuse. Do you enjoy having your finger stuck several times a day, think how your child feels since the sticks are pointless at this time.
Just as an aside - does anyone know the stats on multiple generations with type 1?
I can only find if it’s a first degree relative but nothing on how the odds stack exactly apart from if it is MODY and then it is 50%.
Before my dad there was no one else that we are aware of with type 1 (or type 2 actually) - he has many aunts and uncles and cousins, all diabetes free, and his grandparents and great grandparents were also diabetes free. He doesn’t have any siblings so we will never know if they would have had type had they existed. Nothing on my mom’s side at all of either type.
He wasn’t symptomatic at diagnosis as it was picked up in a general health check and he is still sometimes told he is a type 2 but I doubt it.
Also - and I hope it’s ok for me to keep asking questions - say my daughter has her dinner at 6pm and then you’d expect a rise in blood sugar to peak around 7pm - but then at 7pm she wants to go to bed and has 8oz of milk - where is the two hour post prandial? Because I strongly suspect at an hour after dinner she’d be around 100 and then the milk would likely stop it coming down further which means she’s up around 100 for a few hours? Is that just what happens? The cgms of non-diabetics seem to have set meals three times a day but my toddler basically eats either nothing some days or just all the time others…
Your daughter has a functioning pancreas, that will release more insulin and or reduce glycogen from liver, when food or milk is eaten.
I am the only type 1 in a large family of siblings, aunts uncles, cousins. It is more common to have only one T1D in family. Search this site for topic, “Am I the chosen one?”
I think the chances are higher that your daughter will NOT develop T1D. Maybe that is your new mantra.
You are right, you would not be able to get a clean 2-hour post prandial in these circumstances.
Correct
Not for a few hours probably. A cup of milk should show up on BG for probably about 1 hour or so, with very narrow tail for the milk protein only (if you use skim milk) if at all.
I suggest you throw away your Bernstein’s book and stop worrying. IF he really says what you repeat (that blood sugar should always be 83) then he’s a quack or you are misreading. How does her father feel about your incessant worrying? For your daughter’s sake, please see a therapist yourself. Leave your poor daughter’s fingers alone.
I just wondered generally about the above things - how sugars stack in non diabetics if they eat again within an hour or two. I mean I guess they don’t keep going up but do they come down? So if someone was eating every couple of hours then would their blood sugar go up and stay there until after they finally had a larger break in the eating?
Just wondering. I know obviously as a diabetic I would have to take more insulin if I was eating frequently and presumably non diabetics make insulin they need but all the stuff says about being around 100 after two hours - but what if you’ve eaten again in that time frame?
It’s so variable (the number of Type 1s in a family). My family is full of Type 1s (and some Type 2s). My youngest brother, myself, my grandmother, and my great-grandmother were all T1 (all as adults except my great-grandmother).
For your other question (about non-diabetics “stacking” carbs), yes they go up more or less just like a diabetic. However, their “normal” insulin response means that they don’t usually spike as high, or stay high as long, as either a T1 or T2 diabetic. A T1 diabetic with no endogneous or exogenous insulin has no way to bring a BG down, and so they don’t come down at all (other than the very inefficient kidneys excreting glucose through the urine after filtering blood). Most T2s in the earlier stages will spike higher than a normal person, and will stay higher than a normal person for longer (due to insulin resistance), but will produce enough insulin that they’ll usually come back down to “normal” ranges at some point. But, many Type 2s lose the ability to produce enough (or any) insulin after years of having the disease, and they become insulin-dependent (and have similar issues to T1).
But normal people definitely spike when eating high-carb meals, but they usually come down to “normal” ranges within two hours.
What steps have you taken so far, to get help with your mental health. It is long running over a period of months going by your posts and I think is becoming urgent. By displacing on your daughter, you are ignoring your mental health requirements
In some ways I think we are enabling you here, you come and post which relieves the anxiety for a few hours, but isn’t any real help to you. You then switch to another tangent and off we go again.
I think it is time for others, like @Mila to intervene and give direction for you.
You have been posting for 3 weeks on the subject, over 3 threads. You were told on day one with the first reply, your kid is fine,
Sorry - yes I know I’ve lost the plot a little. I am having help for my plot losing. I find it hard to know what is mother’s intuition and what is just the fact I’ve gone mad.
Anyway. One more question! If she runs at 90 for 12 hours and 104 for 12 hours then her average would be 97ish - giving an hbA1C of around 31? I know this seems another weird question but I think she runs around 5 or lower overnight and then at some points in the day - interspersed with sugars of high 5s and low 6s for an hour or so after she eats. And because she grazes and eats quite frequently I bet most of the day she sits at this point.
