I (accidently) came across this crowd funding initiative:
“Bloodsugar results and alerts on your smartphone! A Bluetooth NFC reader for Freestyle Libre!”
Sounds like a very interesting development and a natural evolution taking Libre in the direction of an actual CGM, but the campaign ends in 4 days and they’re not nearly ready with funding, only 6% raised so far.
Just curious what others think - is it worth investing our money in this project?
Freestyle has already announced a smartphone and watch based scanner product. Given that this will essentially do all that this dlog claims, does this sound like a big winning product? And if the next version of the Libre includes low bluetooth, you wouldn’t even have to wave your smartphone over the Libre. And I have serious doubts about the competence of the team proposing to do this.
And let me also ask what kind of businessmen would give the best discount to those backers giving the smallest amount of money?
My advice? Run away. Fast.
(For context: I use Freestyle Libre “pods” which I get from Sweden but since I am not based there, I cannot use their official LibreLink app. I have however found a non-Abbott open-source app that works exactly the same way and only uses my phone as well, without a reader.)
I disagree with Brian’s assessment of the novelty of the product: the currently available apps that work from a smartphone are great, but they do NOT scan automatically, which is what this proposed device+app offers. Neither do they allow the setting of thresholds. The combination of these two new functions take the FreestyleLibre in the direction of a CGM (and not a flash GM, which is what it is at present). I think this was inevitable anyway if Abbott wanted its fantastic product to catch on and expand its market.
On the other hand, whether this particular developer is best positioned to offer the new features is not clear. The strange-seeming incentives scheme isn’t completely crazy: many hopefuls try to attract as large a number of supporters as possible, even at the lower amounts, so I can see this being a strategic choice (even if not everyone would agree it is a smart strategic choice.)
I have contributed to crowd-funding campaigns for various things before and I personally want more information about the background, the company and its expertise, as well as about the product. How much are they planning to sell it for? What type of charging will it require? How will it impact the smartphone battery? Maybe even a photo of what the prototype looks like on top of the FreestyleLibre transmitter. They do give the dimensions, but the exact design and fit are still important (in the promotional animation it looks square). They also say it is not going to be waterproof, so how easy will it be to remove and reapply?
So “Run away. Fast.” is not my immediate conclusion (I would reserve that advice for things that seem like scams and I don’t believe this is). But whether one chooses to contribute to a project that seems somewhat amateurish then becomes a choice of whether you want to support an otherwise good idea and help the team behind it develop their business acumen even if you don’t get an immediate payoff. For some that might be worthwhile and for others not.
Thanks! Makes sense.
And you’re right, the big promise here (if it’s ever fulfilled) is that this will convert the application of the product into a full CGM with continuous readings (rather than periodic scanning) and alarming, both features are really missed from the current setup…
There are already Open Source versions of this sort of thing available out there. Look here at about the 15 minute mark for more information on Glimp and LimiTTer. Mark Wilson - OpenAPS & DIY Diabetes D-Data Exchange 2016
Glimp, which is the app I use, does NOT scan continuously and one cannot set alerts for.
I am pretty sure no app that works with the FreestyleLibre currently offers either of those. (I researched all available options in March of this year when I started using the Freestyle Libre. You can read more about my initial experiences with both here.)
Granted, technology moves fast, but I don’t think any developer is there just yet.
Glimp is not continuous, but it looks like LimiTTer is exactly what the “Dlog” thing is - a device worn over the Freestyle Libre sensor to turn it into a CGM.
LimiTTer is “a experimental DIY project, where everybody can build her/his own individual transmitter.” My understanding is that it transmits the data to your phone, which uses Glimp to upload your information onto the Nightscout cloud servers and another open source app called xDrip that lets you configure how you’d like to display the information on your Android-based phone or SmartWatch.
Unlike the “Dlog”, if you’re willing and able to do a bit of work, you can have it NOW, not whenever this indigogo project gets going, if it gets going. Admittedly, depending upon your building skills it may not be as sleek and elegant looking, but with Nightscout it also becomes much more than a simple CGM. The full Nightscout offers other things you can use along with your CGM readings, like a Bolus Wizard, tracking of Carbs on Board and Insulin on Board, custom alarms, and other things you can see on the chart if you follow the Nightscout link. #WeAreNotWaiting
LimiTTer sends the data via bluetooth directly to the xDrip android app.Then if you like … xDrip sends the value to a smartwatch (pebble, android wear) or into the cloud. It doesn’t work with glimp, because glimp is designed for a manuallly scan with your phone - it’s not a cgm app. xDrip will show you every 5 minutes a value and you have a night guard.
Thanks for the clarification!
It’s a bit above my head, especially as being in the US, I don’t have access to a Libre.
I do have my Android phone running xDrip for my Dexcom G4 w/Share so that my husband can “Follow” my numbers and get alerts when I’m not responding to low alerts. It’s wonderful having that safety net, even if Dexcom couldn’t/didn’t get FDA approval for Android phones.
Yes i know that mostly all diabetic people living in the US are Dexcom users. Here in Europe the most people must pay for a cgms out of pocket. And that is the reason why the Libre is so popular in all european countries. But it’s only a fgms. That’s the reason for developing the LimiTTer 
And it works great - a cgms without the need for calibrations!
While it was interesting to read the LimiTTer instructions, a DYI of this sort is not a viable option for most (myself included). Even though I can imagine my husband, who is a software engineer with a soft spot for “projects”, having a go at it on my behalf, I would rather see @Joern (who seems to be the person behind the LimiTTer - bravo, sir!) join forces with the Dlog folks and anyone else out there working on the same approach and make something more professional that the rest of us can actually buy and use reliably.
I second that
LimiTTer looks really cool and I can probably follow the instructions and build it myself (after destroying a few circuits first…), but would much rather pay for something that is solidly built by professionals, for my own peace of mind.
If you doesn’t have the technical skills and want to buy a ready-made product, i can recommend
the blueReader:
https://www.startnext.com/de/bluereader
…and here you can read about the development process:
http://unendlichkeit.net/
Thanks Joern, you’ve been extremely helpful and your LimiTTer project is amazing! I started ordering the kit yesterday to have a go at it, and will continue to follow you on github for further advancement. At the same time I will also try to become the first investor in Sandra’s blueReader project (if only I can successfully navigate through the payment procedure in German )
Hi all… I have a long term experience of Libre. First of all, the readings that the batches of sensors from last 12 months have been giving are not exact. There is a constant deviation of approx 1-1,5 mmol/l (18-27 mg/dl) compared to the blood.
On the markets there are several 3rd party android apps that offer more exact readings, where Liapp has the best readings according to my experience.
Glimp has also some deviations of approx 10-15 mg/dl, so I presume it’s a question of algorithm problems. The big advantage of the Glimp is that the sensors can be read even after the 14 days use.
Glimp people are currently working on an android wear version of the app (smartwatch) which can be used on the Sony Smartwatch 3 (after some tweaking of the watch), which gives you a possibility to use the watch for readings independently of the phone or original reader. I am now testing the alpha version for them and it looks ok, as I prefer to carry as few things as possible with me.
Abbott has previously released the LibreLink app in Sweden, which I am testing and it gives exactly the same readings as the reader itself. Btw, they gave a sensor for free for testing the app. Yesterday I got an email from Abbott saying that the app is now released in Germany as well.
Now, to get to the point, there are several ideas and tries to turn Libre into “CGM light”… I have seen Joern’s project as an example. The problem, if you ask me, is that it is all built as a prototype, i.e. the things become bulky when you put something on top of the sensor and then there are issues with fixation, waterproofness, certifications etc. While I honestly don’t believe in this kind of homemade solutions, I would like to see Abbott replacing the NFC chip in the sensors with a low energy bluetooth, as the one used in Dexcom sensors, which would “close the loop”. As that seems very far away I hope that projects like Joern’s and the one on Indiegogo may push them forward.
I know, and I agree, it’s homemade and bulky and has many issues, but the simple fact is that I need to find a way to keep track of my son’s blood sugar fluctuations over the night, and get an alarm when he has hypos. So the solutions we can come up with so far are not perfect, but in the spirit of wearenotwaiting, I will try to build Joern’s LimiTTer myself, and try to support other projects that attempt to bridge this gap, and if Abbott eventually decides to come up with their own solution - I will probably be among the first to buy their solution as well…
The best solution would be a rechargeable transmitter looking like a post-it pad but with rounded corners and edges, where the side facing the skin would have a round and deep space corresponding to the size of the sensor, in which the sensor would get “embedded”.
The fixation should be easy with double-face tape between reader and skin and reader and the sensor, so it would be fairly secure on the arm.
Issues - size and shape - is it possible to make it that way considering all the electronics?
Recharging and waterproofness - one should not have to recharge it every day nor have to take it off in order to be able to take a shower.
The blueReader will be waterproof and wirelessly chargeable. It will be cast in medical silicone.
ARE NFC readers built into apple waches??that would be awesome…then Id go broke and get one
Don’t know about Apple watches, but it is integrated into most Android phones. Here is one list: List of NFC phones