I need hard data

I need data demonstrating that diabetics either do or do not crash cars at a higher incidence than the normal population. Bonus points if you can show incidence of car accidents by police officers. Bonus points for incidence of car accidents by lawyers and legislative members. I have to think those are quite high.

I will play off our strengths. Diabetics do data.

I will send you some type of diabetes prize if you are successful. I am taking suggestions on what that prize should be. I could paint you a picture. I could also send toilet paper.

I think I know the difference between a threat to public saftey, versus not being a threat to public saftey. I dont think we are, especially compared to other illness groups.

You know when I was taking law classes years ago the lawyer teaching the class make this comment about drunk driving laws…One of the reasons drunk driving laws don’t have stiffer penalties is that the lawyers and politicians who make the laws essentially don’t want it to come back to bite them.


This does not support your argument but sometimes to builld a better argument you have to understand the other “side” of the argument.


This one gives does seem to support your argument…I didn’t read through them very carefully so I don’t know which study has more weight to it.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1365-2796.2002.01048.x

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811411
Here’s something on police officers…I didn’t have a chance to read the whole thing. The numbers aren’t that high when you look at how many years of data they were looking at (but they were only looking at fatalities, not all car crashes).

One thing I will say is police officers, at least in my area, usually go through some sort of defensive driving training (“Civilians” can do this too) to improve their ability to avoid an accident. (This type of extra training must have a good impact because going through this training usually can reduce your insurance rates too. (So “they” must see positive results).

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/2/93

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How about comparing to crashes due to cell phones/texting while driving.

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That might be a good starting pont. I don’t think the data that I seek exists. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to make a really direct argument. But, your right. I could get there in a sorta round-a-bout way. This is a great alternative starting point. I should have hired you as my lawyer. BTW, no one will take this case. I might have to represent myself, lol.

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Oh crap. I’ve got some research to do. Thank you very much. Very, very helpful.

Ok, here’s the thing - all the studys contradict. Does that mean that we just call them all inconclusive?

But, we are gonna see the numbers squew in our favor, the more recent the study is because there has been a huge increase in accidents since cell phones. We had the highest number of road fatalities since 1950, maybe like 4 years ago.

Even during the flu pandemic, MN has seen a huge increase in road fatalities…even though there’s way fewer people on the road.

The sample matter sooo much because this stuff is so variable.

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@MOOBM and @MM1, You guys win the prize. What do you want? Toilet paper? A painting of syringes to freak out your coworkers and in-laws? What can I send you? You made my life easier.

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@mohe0001:

While I’m too late for a prize and this is only tangentially related to your request, if a T1D is piloting your 737/777/A320, surely you should be able to drive to the airport to board that plane …

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SAY WHAT!!! No way!!! Prize, prize, prize - You get a prize!!!
Thats extremley helpful information.

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I’m not a lawyer, but a paralegal by training…(They are the ones that do all the leg work for the lawyers). I always tell my Mom, if it is on the internet, I probably can find it.

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I think another factor could be more PWD using CGMS, and so more recent studies may reveal lower accident rates.

So the solution is to provide no cost cgms to all diabetics.

Do the studies separate insulin using PWDs?

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Couple of odds and ends:

State Rep. Andy Dawkins pleaded guilty to drunken driving. The judge sentenced him to a $300 fine and a suspended 30-day jail term.
Dawkins heard about his DWI for years afterward. He said it had a lasting effect on his stature.
Nevertheless, he said, voters in his House district were “very forgiving.” They re-elected him every two years until he voluntarily retired from the Legislature in 2003.

An officer saw Sen. James Metzen‘s car weaving in its lane. The officer pulled the car over. He gave Metzen a field sobriety test. Then he tested his alcohol breath level. The BAC was 0.15%. That’s nearly twice the legal limit.
Metzen was president of the Minnesota Senate. The arrest came about two hours after he had brought the 2007 session to a close. However, he continued in that role after his conviction.
The court sentenced the senator to 20 hours of community service and one year of probation. It also fined him $300 plus $77 in surcharges. The episode also cost Metzen $1,500 for his psychological assessment. It also cost $700 for license reinstatement and $230 in probation fees.

At 1:30 a.m. on a Saturday in 2004, Rep. Tom Rukavina was driving erratically. For this reason, a sheriff’s deeputy stopped the car. The deputy gave Rukavina a field sobriety test and arrested him for DUI.
Rukavina agreed to an alcohol breath test at the jail. His BAC was 0.015%. He was cooperative throughout the entire process from initial stop through release. That, according to the sheriff’s office.
Rukavina later pleaded guilty to driving while impaired. The court imposed the maximum penalty. That was two years of probation in lieu of 90 days in jail. Plus a fine of $500 and a $70 surcharge.
(There was one more listed but I didn’t include him because 1) he was spouse of politician and 2) his arrest was a “wake up” call and he cleaned up)

file:///C:/Users/Nancy/Downloads/HANNA_SAE2010.pdf
Distribution of medical conditions that precipitated car crashes:
Seizures 35%
Black Outs: 29%
Diabetic Reaction: 20%
Heart Attack: 11%
Stroke: 3%
Other: 4%

Personally, if I was having to write something to argue with them I would attack it like this:
Essentially the “problem” is hypoglycemia, whether it is unrecognized, occurs rapidly, whatever. It’s about the “unpredictability” of it. No one can ever say it won’t happen, no one ever knows when it will happen, etc. It can strike without warning like a heart attack or a stroke (which is another argument, do they have these kind of restrictions on people who have a heart attack or stroke?). This is easily solved though with the use of the Medtronic Minimed or DexCom continuous glucose sensor. (I don’t count the Libre because you have to scan it to get a reading). With Medtronic and DexCom, you are constantly getting information, it will alert you if your blood sugars are dropping, It can tell you if you are trending down. The low blood sugar is no longer “unpredictable” and you can prevent it before it becomes a problem.
(That’s where I’d start…Usually it takes several drafts and much more time before I got the way I wanted it).

This was interesting information:

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So, you might say that the laws ought to change to better reflect advancement in treatment technologies and diabetic outcomes?

Thanks for the detailed information, @MOOBM.

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This T1D has only been in one accident in the last 50 years of driving – and it was not my fault (someone pulled out directly in front of me). And I have had only one insurance claim; my motorcycle kick stand sunk in the dirt parking lot and my bike fell over into the car parked next to it.

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