Insurance quesitons

Deb:

Looks like you had a little bit of a negative comment, perhaps I can be both civil and explain.

First there is large difference between what one pays for a service and what it costs. Lets look at a common occurrence in my area, where a doctors visit cost around $100.00. It is common in my area for a plan to require a person to pay $20.00 per visit to a doctor. The plan then pays the doctor the remainder 100-20 = 80 - a network write down = the final payment. In my area the insurance plan pays about $60 for a doctors visit. The person who got the service paid $20.00 the insurance paid $60.00 and the doctor wrote off $20.00 because she was part of a network that steered patients to her. Still the cost was $80.00 before the doctor write off, but the patient paid $20.00. Again a difference in what the patient paid as opposed to what it cost.

Now lets look at drugs. A drug costs x amount. I do not know what byetta costs but lets say it is $200.00. The retail markup (it is very understandable) may be $50.00. The markup has to fund transport, labor, store costs, profit, sales, as well as the cost of the drug. Again this an example so lets not get upset about the example.

Now the plan then has to make a choice about how it will deliver the drug. Two familiar ways it can be done is mail order or at the retail level. A mail order company will often tell an insurance company they can deliver the byetta for $200.00. This workers because they work closer to the manufacturer, they do not have a retail store and they may actually get the drug for a discount from the manufacturer. Whatever the reason the mail order firm is usually a tad cheaper on most items.

Now your plan has the next decision to make. They can do one of three things. First they can underwrite the cost of the drugs for one type of provider or the other, they can pass the cost on as is, or they can charge more for one option or another. The third option is seldom if ever used.

But the plan sponsor or employer may see its future cost structures as going down if it can influence patients into a mail order provider. Thus the plan provider may say ok, we will not subsidize a retail pharmacy, but because we want people to use mail order we will subsidize mail order. or maybe they want to subsidize mail order more than retail. (the second is more common) or they may say no we want to subsidize retail over mail order.

In my area a typical plan will allow a mail order customer to purchase three month prescriptions for the cost of two months. Then they restrict retail purchases to one per month. So there are two incentives for the patient to use mail order. First it is one third cheaper, second you do not have to go to the pharmacy three times for the same supply.

Whatever the incentive offer the cost is the same. lets take my fake byetta example. Lets say the cost of a month of mail order is $200.00 or $600 for three months. Now lets look at how the drug plan might pay.

First in my area you get three months for the cost of two, so immediately it goes down to $400.00 for three months. Then typically in my area the insurance company pays 80% of the cost or $320.00 plus the $200.00 charged for the third month free equals an employer cost of $520.00. Leaving the patient to pay $80.00 for a three month supply.

Now lets say typically in my area if the retail cost of the Byetta is $250.00 then the three month cost would be $750.00, there is no write down to the patient for useing retail so the cost breaks down as follows: Insurance plan will pay $600.00 patient $150.00.

So the patient choice to purchase retail cost the plan $80.00. In addition it cost the patient an additional $80.00 That is an expensive choice. Well the plan sponsor may say wait lets give a bigger incentive to use mail order. Suppose we take that extra $80.00 that we would pay on a retail purchase and give further incentives to the patient. Usually they would do that by splitting the advantage of mail order. So the plan now pays 80% plus $40.00 for toward the cost of the mail order drug. So a patient orders the drug by mail order, So the patient pays 20% of two months minus $40.00 or the patient pays $40.00 for three months.

The plan now pays $560.00 for three months. Which is still $40.00 less than what the plan example pays at the retail level. But now the patient is paying $40.00 for a mail order script as opposed to $150.00 for the retail pharmacy. Now you have a serious reason to select mail order.

Notice however the prices remain the same. The byetta still costs $200.00, the local pharmacy is still well within reason to charge dollars for the store, labor, transport etc. and the mail order company by operating close to the manufacturer still provides a lower cost alternative.

Now what did you the patient give up. First you gave up on demand pick up. Mail order costs time. Second you gave up a local pharmacist, those folks are very valuable, finally you gave up one to one service. At my local pharmacy, they call me when I am getting low or need a new script. I do not have to call them. Local pharmacies have more overhead, but it is really overhead most customers use.

I hope this long explanation helps out.

Rick

We will find out if it is a good discusison or not. Right now I am a little shell shocked.

Rick

To all:

Express scripts has reported a security breach with their data files. Several articles have been written about the breach and the blackmail attempt associated with it. If you were an express scripts subscriber before October 2008 it may be helpful to look at their web site that explains the breach and the steps Express Scripts and the FBI have taken to track and arrest the thieves.

http://www.esisupports.com/resource-center/

Rick

I have a question about a practice that Coventry of Kansas follows. Our particular plan is covered by ERISA

Insulin from Eli Lilly are offered at a mid-tier ($30) co-pay. ALL other insulins are at the highest-tier copay of $55. The same is true for Ultra test strips at $30 and all others at $55. They said that these insulins were more cost efficient. However, I was able to find for Humalog ($30) and Novalog ($55) that there was a 47-cent difference in price between the two vials and I think the Novalog was the cheaper of the two. My pharmacy records will show me the amount I paid and the amount my plan paid. Heck, I’d pay $30.47 without breaking a sweat

It just seems to me that there is some type of relationship between Coventry and Eli Lilly and is it legal for Coventry to, in effect. “push” the Eli Lilly products over those of other manufacturers?

In general, I dislike that type of a practice. Price all the insulins the same and let the patient and doctor decide what is best. I don’t mind being encouraged to try generics, I use as many as I can, but there are no generic insulins.

Scott:

I can guarantee there is a relationship between Lilly and the insurance company. Again look at my previous discussion of what one pays VS what they cost. Most insurance plans have a set of drugs they price less than competitors. It is legal, in fact it is encouraged by plan sponsors. The end result is that the plan has a marketing deal with Lilly that drives the Lilly cost lower for the plan. Not only that but in order to protect the insurance list of protected products, the deal with Lilly likely specifies that competitors will not be treated equally.

Now one other thing, the deal may not be in the insulin. The deal may actually be on another drug or a group of drugs in the Lilly catalog. I sort of look at this way. Any head to head comparison may yield a variation. The proof however is in the pudding, and the plan mangers will look at the overall costs and make a decision in about October if they will stick with it or change next year. I will say they are looking at the top ten drugs being purchased on the plan. What are the savings and costs.

I can also say if the Novalog is cheaper for you, you are free of course to buy outside the plan. If you do that use the seciton 125 option so you will at least get a federal tax break on the purchase.

Rick

no, it’s cheaper WITHIN the plan

I just remember Lilly had to pay a big fine several years ago with some pharmacies for doing something very similar.

I budget my section 125 dollars very carefully for the year, I have 3,250 allocated this year which is basically my prescription copays plus my max out of pocket expenses for the year,

thanks!

Scott:

Generally these relationships exist because of a practice termed a “Formulary”, for the most part a Formulary can either hurt or help a participant. Usually there are two parts to choosing a prescription plan. A company one is looking at will give the employer or plan sponsor its formulary and that is checked against the ten largest drug purchases for the plan. The plan sponsor will then determine which of the ten are on the new formulary and if all ten are or nine or whatever, then the plan sponsor get a discount if they use the stated forumulary. When that occurs, then the employees best prices will be for drugs purchased inside the formulary list. Also there are usually penalities for going outside the formulary, but not always.

The drug company then arranges whatever discounts is can with the drug company. Since the plan is removed form the choice of the specific drugs on a formulary the practice is not considered illegal. Now it would be illegal for a company to say we will give you a discount if you promise to never sell our competitors product. Drug makers never do this.

The formulary its self can and often does guide drug plan selection. A plan sponsor must be sure that as many employees are taking the best priced drugs when choosing a drug plan. It is often a bit of a crap shoot, but as I said most plan administrators will examine the top ten scripts.I know I have been in a situaiton where one drug, usually one doctor is not on a formulary list.When that happens the plan will usually make an exception for that drug, but make exceptions is costly.

Rick

PS congrats on using the section 125. So many folks do not and it is such a waste of money when you don’t use it. This year look at the expanded list of OTC products on the approved list. I understand the economic stimulus plan may have expanded the list. Though I have not seen it myself. Whatever is on the list, it does make good sense to use it.

This information is so fascinating and informative!! Thanks, Rick, and everyone!!The section 125 is totally new to me!!! I will call my employer to ask about it when I return to work on Tuesday.
BTW, who do I contact to get my insurance to justify a drug my podiatrist gave me for neuropathy, which was turned down by my insurance.? It is an extended release vitamin B and folic aid compound, called Mentax. This drug gives me almost total relief from episodic peripheral neuropathy with no side effects, unlike Lyrica,Neurontin, and Topamax. It is very expensive , $2.00 a tablet ,and my doctor wrote the script for two a day. Consequently, that would be $120.00 a month. My podiatrist is a sweetie, and he wanted to give me some trial samples, but had run out; so he wrote the script, thinking that my insurance company would cover it. They didn’t… Can I get them to cover it just for me?Should I go to my employer to ask about it? What do you suggest?

God Bless
Brunetta

Brunetta:

I am glad you enjoy the strand, I hope the information will be useful.

The drug question you ask about is a little tricky. Obviously the drug in question is likely a non formulary drug and since it will likely be dispensed in low quantities it likely cannot be added. My suggestion is two fold. First call the insurance company and ask why it is not covered. They will likely tell you it is not on their approved list. However this information is important as you approach your employer to have it added.

While talking with the insurance company ask them about the appeal process for adding the drug. Go ahead an follow that appeal process but at the same time notify the person at your employer that you are having difficulty. Go ahead ask for their help as you let them you know you have no choice but to appeal.

I am guessing that prenatal vitamins are covered by your plan and if so use the same logic in your appeal. Namely the vitamins will stop claims in the long run. The common response form the company and employer will likely be that vitamins are not part of the plan design. that is a fair response, but if they are already paying for prenatal vitamins they have already made an exception and you should exploit that exception but pointing out that vitamins are covered, depending on the condition and consequences.

Now let me clarify I am not dissing prenatal vitamins, they are one of the most important thing a plan can pay for. But if an exception has been made, it is worth exploiting for this purpose.

Rick

PS: You may have a wellness benefit in your plan. Though it is a long shot, if all else fails ask for coverage under the wellness provision. The employer has far more control over what qualifies as wellness than the drug formulary.

yes Rick thanks,my earlier reply was to Leah,cause I just wasnt getting what was being said I guess. And when she stated that the pharmacy didnt mark up that much, I thought whoa,they do Byetta. I;m getting to understand this a little better, but Leah am I to understand that you mean I can get my local pharmacy to provide me the supplies I need for what Maxor will charge? or did I interpret that wrong?

Deb:

There is no harm in trying, however, It is most doubtful they will be able to make that arrangement. If it is a small difference they might make a small adjustment. But unfortunatley their price structure (heat, lights, workers, transportation, etc ,etc) will likely not allow them to do so. In a local pharmacy there is a breaking point and because they do not work as close to the manufacturer as a mail order company it is unlikely they can do that. However on the other hand, I do not mind paying a premium price for the outstanding service that the local pharmacy provides. The cost / benefit of paying more or less is a personal decsion. However, I always stress that the benefits of a local pharmacy are significant.

rick

My problem is not the insulin nor the testing supplies (all of that is covered and costs me $1.49 per refill; the government supplies no charge pumps to Type 1s and supplies $200/month to pay for pump supplies while my insurance covers the rest of the pump supplies) so you might say that I am pretty well off compared to most of you.

My problem is with life insurance and the phenomally high rates charged a diabetic. the last time I tried to apply for private life insurance was about 10 years ago and the amount was $200K. First … I was refused outright by almost every company I approached. The one that accepted wanted in excess of $700/month and would escalate every year until I reached 65 when they would no longer insure me.

I have used the 125 for the last 4 years and think it’s absolutely great. Some of my co-workers whine about the forms we have to fill out, but, then, they don’t have $2500+ out of pocket costs like I do. I even have a separate little pouch I carry in my purse and stuff all eligible receipts into it. Every little bit of savings helps.

George:

Well you are so right life insurance is catastrophically expensive for adult diabetics. I do suggest and I hope all of us who are type 1 diabetics will carry through, and get children s policies for our grand babies and sons and daughters, with a guaranteed insureability clause past age 25. I am fortunate that my parents recognized the day may come when I would not be practically uninsured. That is the time when buying life insurance is no longer affordable even if it is available. they took a little $2,000 life policy on me when I was 7 years old. When I becamse Type 1 at 17, they converted it to a $25,000 option immediately. Then when I was 30 I was able to convert it to a $50,000 policy which is my total life insurance at the moment.

When we have grand babies or children and we are type 1 it makes the most sense to buy a guaranteed convertible policy while they are still insurable. Holding off can have long term consequences. I know my sons each dropped their coverage at age 25 but if they had developed type 1those polices would have been a god send.

Rick

Kathy:

It is the best no cost benefit employed people have. I have written my congressman several times and asked that it be extended to retirees as well. It is doubtful that will occur in the near term, but the tax benefit no matter the income tax bracket is really important.

Rick

Rick ,
could you explain this section 125 thinkgy to me?,I guess it sounds like I’m the only one that doesnt know about it! Which dosent suprise me at all…lol…I’m always the last one to know. And by the way,we just through taking out one of those little insurance policies on all the grandkids!:slight_smile:

deb

Deb:

I will give it a little run. Hopefully I can stay out of trouble. LOL

First of all a section 125 is employer sponsored. If you are employed and your company subscribes to a section 125 or cafeteria plan you should really consider participation.

Here is how it works.

Suppose your paycheck is $100

you will get paid that $100 and from that $100 federal income tax will be deducted. Lets say 15% or $15.00 so your paycheck before state taxes is $85.00.

Now lets look at a section 125. Lets suppose you set aside $10.00 per pay into a Section 125 plan. Your pay check will look like this. $100 - $10 = $90 * 15% = $76.5 before state taxes.so your take home is $76.5 but, and this is the cool part you now have $10.00 to spend on scripts and other medical expenses.

Before 125 you had $85.00 - $10.00 (for scripts) = $75.00 So as you can see you gained 1.50 in non taxed resources.

Here is where it gets cool. You have to sign up for a total Section 125 account for all year. It cannot vary by pay. So if you set aside $10.00 per pay, each pay your 125 account will get $10.00. Lets say you get paid twice a month or 26 times per year, that amounts to $260.00.

Now on day one of the plan those funds are available to you for medical reimbursements. So lets say your plan starts on January 1 and you need to buy scripts on January 2 and you go to the store and buy them On January 3, you can send in a claim for up to $260.00 (your total amount deducted) to reimburse yourself for those scripts. Remember on January 3 you have not put one nickle in the account, that will not happen until later in the week when you get your first paycheck and $10.00 goes in. In essence you get all year to turn in receipts for reimbursement for the cost of medical expenses for all year.

Now why is this so cool?

suppose you put aside $260 and you spend it all. $260 * 15% = $39.00 saved. those are dollars that are not taxes in your paycheck. 15% is a pretty standard tax rate, your may be a little lower. But whatever your tax rate is you can multiply it by the amount of money set aside and you can see your savings.

Now what are the down sides? First you can only spend your section 125 funds, for medical reimbursement. Second, if you do not keep the receipts or spend enough to seek reimbursement for the amount of 125 set aside, you lose the money. One more thing, your reimbursement can only be claimed against those eligible expenses that are not covered by insurance. So if you go to the doctor and your co pay is $20.00 and insurance covers the rest. You can only claim $20.00 in your 125 account.

So lets say you set aside $260.00 and you have reimbursements of $200.00, you will lose the other $60.00. Suppose you set aside $260.00 and you have receipts for $320.00 well you can only claim up to $260.00.

Ok so why is this important. Lets say you really spend $3,000 annual on out of pocket medical costs.(those not covered by your insurance company) and your tax rate is 15%. You would have gained an extra $450.00 annually that is not available to you currently.

Even if your medical csots are $1,000 you can still gain $150.00.

One more thing, you can also section 125 your health insurance premiums. So lets say your health insurance costs $1,000 per year. You can section 125 that total amount.

Lots of folks miss the insurance premium option, but if your employer does not do it, they should.

Rick

College/ school health insurance plans

One question almost always occurs and that is what to do if a young person has reached the age of 24 and is losing health coverage on their parent’s health insurance plan. Unfortunately many people choose to do without, but this can be catastrophic for people with chronic disease. One alternative is a college health insurance plan. Most plans require the student be enrolled at least half time (others have a 3 hour minimum) and for a relatively small price per year one can get pretty good coverage. Since this is a short term fix, many time pre-existing conditions clauses are waived.

This has the main benefit of providing some coverage, but the secondary benefit of supplying a bridge and thus qualifying for a certificate of continuous coverage. This CCC, is important when a person starts a new job so pre-ex restrictions will not apply.

Information on student heath plans can usually be located at counselors, or bursar’s office.

Just one note, these plans are usually not age specific. If you are losing coverage and are in school you might look into this coverage no matter your age.

Rick

Hi Rick -

Thanks for all this info! I was about to ask about college/school plans when I saw this had already been broached. I have another question on this topic though.

I am covered under my school plan because I do not get insurance from my part time job and I am not covered by my parents’ plans. It covers me reasonably well for doctors visits and procedures, but the prescription reimbursement is capped at $2,000./year! Since T1 diabetes is just one of a few conditions I have, I run out of this amount in about 4 months. I buy what I can from discount online places like healthwarehouse.com which has great deals on test strips - but I’m still paying the exorbitant pharmacy rates for my insulin and other pills. I have had many fire-y discussions w/ my insurance co. about appealing for add’l coverage and they will not budge on their cap.

Any suggestions for ways I can get cheaper insulin or add’l prescription coverage?

Thanks so much!
-Katie

Katie:

Be sure you are taking advantage of any discount cards? or lower pay incentives. This is a real issue that does not have a good answer. Look at any plans offered from online pharmacies. Caremark, (CVS), may have one I do not know for sure.

Rick