This is interesting to me, because my hs-CRP level has always been in the high range, and taking a statin hasn’t really seemed to change that. From reading I’ve done, it seems like autoimmune processes in and of themselves can lead to inflammation, and I do have a lot of immune-mediated activity going on. It would be interesting if we could start tracking inflammation as a risk factor of developing future health issues and find ways to lower overall inflammation. (I’ve avoided a lot of the foods I’ve read about being inflammatory just because of my food allergies over the years.)
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Yeah I think there are different types of inflammation and not all anti-inflammatories affect all forms. But I do wonder if the auto-immune component is a factor in how T1 could contribute to risk, and if so, what’s the best way to mitigate that? (Probably no one really knows yet.)
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Well, I know how to keep cholesterol levels low. It is by taking antioxidants on top of an already wise diet. I can attest that even if you eat cheese and dairy you will be able to balance that by the use of extra antioxidants. I use a lot of vitamin C and E but you must understand what you are doing and know your risks as Vitamin E is a blood thinner and vitamin C can cause loose stools when more is taken than needed so divide the dose through the day.
They work as a team and balance free radicals. So the lower internal damage causes the body to need less cholesterol to be made and so it falls in tandem with that wise approach. I’ve been doing this for 4 decades as a T1 and so my blood pressure is fine even though I am almost 63.
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Sure, but do you have any reason to think your BP wouldn’t be fine without the supplements? Some people (like myself) have good blood pressure and cholesterol thanks to genetics, regardless of T1 diabetes. I eat plenty of dietary fat, including saturated fat, and the only time my metabolic numbers are off is if my A1c rises, so do my triglycerides.
Personally, I’m wary of taking many vitamins as supplements unless a deficiency is shown or likely or a dietary restriction warrants supplementation, since it seems like studies regularly show more risks and fewer benefits to supplements previously thought to be beneficial. Last I checked, taking Vitamin E in supplement form was linked to worse cardiac outcomes and was no longer recommended. Calcium supplements may contribute to deposits in blood vessels. Even regular high dose vit C use has been linked to kidney stones. I do take magnesium because it makes a clear and detectable difference on my muscle tension problems, and I take Vit D because my levels are otherwise low, but otherwise I don’t take vitamins.
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That’s a lot of cheese!!
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My blood pressure has been very fine to low my entire life and there was a three year period Feb 2004 to April 2007 I did stop supplements to see what would happen, but I did not feel as well. My BP did not go up. I was testing to see if the previous neuropathy (Oct 2002 to April 2003) would come back and it did not.
I agree taking supplements wisely takes a lot of study and I have done that for years. I agree that excessive calcium is not good, You should make sure you take enough K2 too with the D3 and I hope it is not D2 by prescription that you are using as it is not as well utilized. See interview of Dr Kate Rheaume Bleue by Dr Mercola on his site to see what she says. I hope to soon read her book, “Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life”
Everyone has to figure out what is good for themselves and I would not give up vitamin E nor vitamin C as they do serve me exceptionally well.
Look at this study that says the two together work well which I already knew.
Also what all people in this group could do is a simple test of using more antioxidants which I am saying can be vitC and VitE but you can find others too and I will look some up to recommend and you could take them until your next set of blood tests to see the results.
However, it is advisable to not take vitamin C for 1-2 days before the tests, but no more than that of a gap as a rebound can happen. The point is for some blood tests that use dipsticks the results can be altered by the use of vitamin C, so let 2 days go by to get it out of the system, but no more than that. Also biotin which is really great for nails should have a gap of not taking it before the tests for the same reason. These supplements are indeed good for the body, but do interfere with some tests in different manners. Once when I left a gap of three weeks the rebound effect was extreme. You see each day I felt I would be going to get the tests done and did not, so had been that long without the vitamin C and so the cholesterol profile was the worst it has ever been which just proves if I did not take the supplements my endo would be trying to get me to take a statin as he takes one himself at a low dose. However, I knew the reason for the results and just made sure to go back to the vitamin C and the next set of results was fine because I did not repeat the mistake of leaving too long a gap, no more than two days without the vitamin C and antioxidants. I guarantee you, this is absolutely correct and I BET the majority of you would make the same mistake and then you would say antioxidants do not work. The reason the rebound effect takes place is the body is smart and if it does have increased internal damage because there is less available antioxidants, then it will ramp up the production of cholesterol.
I bet if you left a single day gap one time and then another time left a two day gap, you would find the cholesterol results would be better after the single day gap than the two day gap as the change happens that fast. So try both experiments in your next set of two results and see the difference. It will just prove it to you some more. The vitamin C is good for the body but makes the use of certain tests less than accurate, so as vitamin C is water soluble just one day is enough to get it out of the system and yet not be that long that the body is left to fend for itself and decides to ramp up the use of cholesterol as a repair mechanism for internal damage which will begin again as it always does.
So the reason I chose two days is that is what they say for biotin and for vitamin C only one day gap is needed so for simplicity I said to myself, two days. If you left a gap of even 7 days you would wipe out the apparent benefit of vitamin C showing up in your results as that is enough time for the body to go back to using more cholesterol.
So how much of a gap you leave between the use of antioxidants and the blood tests is absolutely critical, so do different scenarios yourself and prove to yourself the results as I have done in my case. I am passing one wht I have learned so you can benefit from it and if you want instead to side with the drug companies then I will, not even speak or communicate with anyone like that as I am more on the side of solving problems than of keeping the drug campanes swimming in money, so that should make it clear to you whose side I am on. That is a slight digression because I am indeed livid with anger that the drug industry prefers to make people more ill so they can make more money. That is why they continue to say that there is no cure for neuropathy as they prefer it that way. The patients don’t like it, but that is what they believe in so I have decided to let them languish as the resistance is foolishness indeed. The time to cure is as soon as the problem develops and it can easily be done, but that does not serve the goals of the drug industry.
For example the vitamin C can interfere with dipstick tests for ketones. So years ago I asked the makers of my then and still used Lifescan Ultrasmart blood monitor if it would interfere with that and she said specifically NO as she said it was the molecule of glucose that is measured in the blood sample and the blood monitor is not a dipstick in approach. So I just stopped the urine dipstick testing as I was usually in light ketosis anyway as my diet is low carb with intermittent fasting so it was pointless testing more than necessary and I already have many years of knowing the good effects of vitamin C in keeping cholesterol down.
So all you people need to do is get some testing done to show you it works too and then you will be satisfied. If by providing more antioxidants to balance free radicals and hence lower internal damage which then signals to the body that less cholesterol is needed so less is made, you will be solving the problem at the source and will make it more than unnecessary to take a statin which has been recognized by many very intelligent people who have written books on the topic for a long time saying that statins have been a scam to sell drugs. If you want to read I can provide some book titles to find and read. Also look up what Dr Sinatra and his team says on the topic.
The idea is to take enough antioxidants on top of an already wise diet. You need to allow the body the freedom to make the level of cholesterol it needs as there are several uses for cholesterol in terms of repairing after exercise, making hormones and repairing internal tears and wiping out cancer too. So the wisest way to do it is increase the supplemental antioxidants and the need based on internal damage will go down. SO YOUR OWN CHOLESTEROL LEVELS WILL DECREASE ON THEIR OWN IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE without the incorrect way of inhibiting the production of cholesterol which would then leave your body at a shortfall even when it may need more which is entirely unwise. The body functions by signaling for things. That is why hormones are so important. So give it the freedom to make what it needs and just solve the problem at the source by reducing the internal damage caused by free radicals by providing enough antioxidants to solve that issue which is natural and just needs the tools to balance. You would then be working with your body and not against it.
Some of you might have been turned into diabetics just by being put on a statin as that was proved with a class action court case and won many years ago. However in this discussion many have been deemed T1 and may have become diabetic before then. Things are not black and white as there are many ways a person can become classed as diabetic. However one of them is to take a statin and inhibit the production of insulin and maKe the person less able to make enough insulin to cover their own needs and that happens with overweight people who become T2.
If you follow Dr Jason Fung, he makes a good analysis of the situation and he says that a liver that is full of fat is less able to handle the diabetic situation. So being on a low carb diet can help that and he manages to reverse people’s diabetes that way. He says the fat in the liver will be used first even before the fat under the skin is used.
I know vitamin C can help clear a liver as Dr Abram Hoffer’s writing sent me on that mission for myself when I read about it 11 years ago, so I increased my use of vitamin C and had a scan of my liver in 2011 and it was completely clear in 2011 whereas had been a little rough in 2010 I had been told. So when you find things and approaches work, like I have, then you become a believer in all that has been written ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF ANTIOXIDANTS.
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Agree 100%. My T2 wife refuses to take statins for fear of side effects despite the preponderance of medical data that supports taking them if you have diabetes, mechanistic arguments aside. I’m pushing her to try them, see how it effects her, and stop if necessary. Why assume a negative outcome? Why assume that in 10 years they’ll discover something negative we don’t know today? Something positive could also emerge.
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Agree… and would add that the vastly reduced incidence of heart disease is already a pretty positive thing… which is why they’re the standard of care for diabetics over 40
That is the problem. Diabetics are not standard by any means. We are all different ages, sex, weight, ethnicity etc which all has a bearing on on our health and mortality. Statins really needs a re-evaluation for different groups of people rather than the age old they are better than nothing pushed by the pharmaceutical industry for years. They are not better than nothing for everyone, they have been proven to be detrimental to some individuals.
It’s actually pretty much one of the most solid and accepted standards of medicine. Diabetics are at increased risk for heart disease, statins lower risk for heart disease.
Why there’s this cultural movement online to reject something that would very likely significantly extend our lives makes no sense to me. And the assertion that this is some money making scheme doesn’t hold much water to me as they’re some of the cheapest generic drugs out there… the cash price for atorvastatin at Walmart is $4 for a 30 day supply.
That makes about as much sense as arguing that generic aspirin is a money making scheme at our expense.
Just because people don’t want to take them doesn’t mean they’re not valid recommendations.
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Yes, you are correct and it is certainly a benefit for some patients but the benefits, I believe, have been blown way out of proportion by manipulating data at a time when research trial results were able to be cherry picked and detrimental risks and side effects buried. This is why we now see a movement to reject the fact that statins are a one size fits all wonder pill.
This is not a cost issue, I get my statin with no co-pay on my drug plan but do have some of the side effects mentioned in various studies so am doing extensive self research at this time including a weekly lipid panel and adjusting food and exercise to reduce statin use.
Anyone who wants an entertaining introduction to the challenge of statin use without getting too much into the weeds for starters, I highly recommend the following video:
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Faultless comment right on target.
I found it somewhat amusing if one could say that when on a Dr Oz show he had invited Dr Sinatra and his colleagues who brought up this topic and as Dr Oz is a heart surgeon one would hope he had the right information. Dr Oz also does try himself to suggest approaches that might seem more natural, but even Dr Oz was acting like he was caught off guard.
The fact is there are different approaches to things, I am well aware, but in my life my main two doctors are both aware of how I got better from neuropathy by 2003 and one actively helped me. After that he then asked me to help others of his patients, but when the first woman I helped from 2003-4 had asked me in 2011 to publically explain things and then I asked my until then cooperative GP, he then said the reason he could not admit that vitamins could help even though he knew they worked was that he would be faced with backlash from the people who do not want to see people get better. He specifically told me that because “the standard of care was drugs until death” he would have to consider the potential legal costs to himself. So in one discussion which was actually one of many I had with him over the years, he was explaining why he was helpful to his own patients if it was not blatantly obvious simply because of what I have since called the fact of the TAIL WAGGING THE DOG in that THE DRUG COMPANIES SEEM TO CONTROL THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY.
So the reality is people do want to get better because their loyalties are to themselves rather than to the drug companies. I have discussed this with people here in Ontario as I said it would be cheaper to see people cured than to keep them ill until death as our medical system is much of it paid out of taxes so there should be an incentive to keep costs down. So I will cooperate if someone is cooperative with me, but the last doctor I suggested it to is one who is in research as my two doctors have said for years they are too busy as it is. I do know that it takes effort as I have put in years of that effort to help others with no benefit to myself. So even I have said I have had enough.
The reality is each person owes it to themselves to take the effort to look into their own cases more effectively and not just listen to a doctor who speaks to them for say 15 minutes every 6 months.
So back to the main point of this discussion, my endo had been surprised that my cholesterol profile both changed a LOT and at the same time my HbA1c came down to the low 7 range after having climbed given I had changed my diet and added back in milk. He wanted to know what was the huge difference and I said it was basically more vitamin C and that I had already proved that to him before. He’s been my doctor since 1986. The GP has been my doctor since 2000.
Also now that it is the time of the coronavirus I will mention that my Chinese speaking GP who is indeed from Hong Kong originally had me write with him an article in 2003 about the SARS disaster in Toronto which is where he has his practice. Since some are calling the coronavirus not much more than a common cold type of situation what it means is just have enough of a support to the immune system as you can get and that WOULD INVOLVE ALL SORTS OF APPROACHES, not the least of which is to use more antioxidants of whatever type you can support. I do not at all think 1 gram of vitamin C is enough to save the world, as what Dr Linus Pauling did was calculate based on his own dog’s level of naturally made vitamin C what he should take for himself as a doctor. It is based on a person’s body weight, but also what they are up against. The loose stools potential side effect results only when you have more than enough, so figure that level out and just take less than that. Also it is very well known that when vitamin C is taken intravenously the loose stools issue is not a factor and that is why it has been used that way effectively in many different ways. For explanations of that you would need to get an in depth book on the topic.
So in the next reference is a man who decided himself to pay attention to the work of researcher Dr Linus Pauling and the two books he mentions are what I originally read.
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n07.shtml
What all people will do is find what works for themselves and when they do discover that, there is little that will then change their mind. I know as I have had all these years experience with my own results.
Here is a quote
The only thing that makes battle psychologically tolerable is the brotherhood among soldiers. (Sebastian Junger)
So the battle is against the diabetes and all the connected symptoms of illness. To take some doctors claim that there is no cure for something is to put yourself at a serious disadvantage.
It bothers me a great deal that I feel I was turned into a diabetic without having had the resources we have now with the Internet and so I want to warn people who are newly diagnosed, but so many are seriously still of the opinion that if a doctor makes a claim then the doctor must be right. Well my GP asked me if all 4 in his family all had diabetes and I told him all they had done was eat a very indulgent meal on a cruise and that the book “The Diabetes Solution” he had asked me to get in 2000 actually mentioned the difference between release 1 and release 2 of insulin and that the body develops insulin to manage usual levels and so after a very large meal even non diabetics will take longer to make enough extra insulin to cover the extra load of food.
The goal should not be to turn the whole world into diabetics. It can easily be done. Whose side are you on? I am directing this to any reader and not my doctor as he was ready to look up that doctor’s description of the facts. The only reason my GP had asked me was he knew I read a lot of books, more than he did, even if he had the books on his shelf. This is because given he was not classed as a diabetic he had never read it that carefully.