Nope. I don’t know. What I have right now is excellent insurance, so my co-pay for the whole 670g setup was zero. My fight now is to keep that excellent insurance or transition to a new plan.
I never tried to wear a Medtronic sensor for longer than 7 days. I kept dealing with failures so just getting one to work was my goal. There might be a way to do it. I know people do it for the Dexcom. In fact, I’m one of them right now as I’m looking for work, so I just feel safer wearing my sensors for as long as possible.
I hated the whole experience of using the Medtronic sensors from how sensitive and prone to failure they are and having to charge the transmitter. That’s just dumb and feels to me like a way that Medtronic is forcing patients to churn through their product, which is more sales for them. I also think it’s short-sighted considering Dexcom’s is just battery powered, runs out after a few months, and then is replaced. I had the Dexcom running at the same time, so I knew I had a reliable CGM on at all times.
Yeah I kind of got the impression from many people that they preferred the dex, after seeing a whole load of people with a medtronic pump and a dex sensor, which obviously isn’t the easiest combo considering the built in nature of the pumps continuous glucose monitoring…
Also, just to note that I wouldn’t reuse a sensor at any cost, but I found that many times, they were only just getting reliable by day 6. In the early days of the gen 1 sensors, I was actually advised to re-run them by my doctor, because it’ was kind of ridiculous to only let them go for 3 days when often it could take a couple to get them steady…
Both myself and a lot of other people had them run for incredible lengths of time, and because there was no fluid crossover, the sites didn’t scar and weren’t prone to infection.
Often they would take over 2 days to warm up. The variance on the life I got out of them was huge…
Looking for a rough and ready opinion before I dive in, I guess
Thanks, Regina.
Im currently using the 630G, and waiting for the 670G, and came from an Animas Vibe, so Ive used both Dex and Medtronic CGM’s. This is anecdotal, but IMHO the Medtronics are more accurate for me, and take half the time to settle in than the Dex did.
Id like to comment on a few things from this thread. First, extending the use of the sensors. To say that Medtronics dont extend beyond their recommended use due to some conspiracy on Medtronic’s end to make us “churn through their product” is silly. Dexcom certainly doesnt advocate using a sensor beyond 7 days, and yet many people extend them successfully. NEITHER product is intended to be extended. So, theres no nefarious intent here.
Second, the 3rd gen Guardian sensors. The FDA approved them to deliver and reduce insulin based on their numbers. Think about that for a minute. Thats HUGE. Unless you think Medtronic somehow influenced the FDA to go ahead and approve it even though they suck as bad as some of their last products, I dont have hesitation using them. Is it possible they;ll suck on a large scale? Sure it is. And then they’ll be recalled. But the fact they have gone through many trials and having read the reports from users who have used them, it gives me some confidence.
Look. Ive lived with D long enough to remember having to boil my stainless/glass syringes and hand sharpen the needles. Hell…home glucose testing wasnt even a thing until my 17th or 18th year of living with D. What Im trying to say is, IMHO the 670G is probably the biggest advancement in the treatment of D since the original pump, and I, for one, am excited to use it. There are positives and negatives to every pump, every CGM, and every treatment method, and whatever you choose for you is best for you. But it drives me batty when people complain about something that they themselves havent even used (Regina excluded, as it didnt work well for her).
I’d just add, on the specific question of how the system can work when no sensors are 100% accurate: unlike what we’ve been used to until now, I believe all of the next generation pumps are going to increasingly make use of learning systems. So in the case of the 670, gearing up for running on auto involves a period of several days to a week in which the system learns the quirks of your specific metabolism. I haven’t been through it but I assume that means there’s a period of teaching it how to interpret the CGM data it’s getting from your body in light of manual input from you, and thus it becomes increasingly accurate until you reach the point where you can switch it over to full auto. Doesn’t mean it’s 100% right, nothing is, but these things can be surprisingly effective. It’s basically AI, and it’s behind some features not out yet but already in development, such as one-click meal bolusing, that work the same way: first the pump learns from you, then (up to a point) it can take over, always of course with the ability for you to override it and to accommodate exceptions.
This was one of the things I asked about when I met with my M-t rep about the 630->670 program. I really rely on my Dexcom when I’m bike riding–I ride with my phone open to the iPhone app so I can look out for hypos. I wanted to know if there’d would be a phone app with the Guardian 3 sensor system, and he said basically you won’t need it. He showed me 24 hour data tracks from a 670 user, including meals and exercise and I was pretty blown away. I wish they’d post some of that online–it’s essentially what convinced me to sign on for the program. There is another 670G thread on TUD where someone recently posted some of their data. Don’t have time to look for it right now but a site search should turn it up.
But if that data is from a sensor used to drive the pump then how can it be believed from a skeptical point of view?
I would be more inclined to believe something like that if a different sensor was recording it. Such as a Dexcom recording the BG readings from a Metronic pump/sensor combo. With the data provide by the rep if the sensor data was off (again - from a skeptical point of view) you would not be able to tell at all from the graphs.
It’s a good question. I assume they had to have been verifying from external testing–fingersticks–at least in the initial stages, otherwise they’d never have gotten approval. Not to mention I think they actual do care about doing scientifically valid work–it’s better for their bottom line in the long run. User interface design… well that’s another matter
Related issue: the Guardian 3 system is designed to alert/pause if it thinks its sensors are incorrect. Kind of a tail-swallowing issue there, too, but there are certain patterns you could design it to look out for. (Dexcom does some of this). Ultimately it’s going to be down to people using it. If M-t is wildly wrong about what they’re claiming it’s not going to be pretty for them out in the real world, so I tend to think the incentives to do honest and competent testing are pretty high.
I agree that FDA approval and R&D and all that - I am sure was all legit. I don’t question the FDA approval process.
But the marketing showing a graph that shows a sensor controlling the pump in a tight range and that range reported by the sensor that is controlling the pump… I distrust reps and marketing from the get go anyway.
However what Medtronic really cares about? Any company this big is concerned about its stock price.
Which is going to crater if marketing hoopla of this caliber ends up being contradicted by actual patient results after the device goes out on the public market. I’m as cynical as the next guy but once people start actually using these things and getting their A1Cs tested by endos not on Mt’s payroll it’s going to either live up to the claims or crash and burn. Sure, anyone could fake the anonymized patient charts I saw, but the downsides of operating that way are far worse than the upsides when you’re selling life-or-death equipment like this to vulnerable people and little kids. That’s a PR minefield no smart, bottom-line oriented business would deliberately walk into.
It is not so much “faking” as using the same sensor to show how good that sensor works. It is simply circular logic.
Two aspects that would allow Medtronic to continue on with (potentially) less than stellar results would be its sheer size and backroom deals with large insurance companies like UHC which mandate the usage of their products.
I’m currently waiting for the 670g even though I’ve had less than stellar results with the Enlite sensors. My new insurance starts July 1st and I think I’m leaving them behind as I was forced to get them with UHC. I’m switching to the Tslim with the Dexcom and hope to have better results. This pump is all paid for so hopefully if the Tslim isn’t any better I’ll go back to the Medtronic pump and just continue to use the Dexcom sensor. Fingers crossed I’ll get better readings with the Dexcom.
@Tim35 : There are numerous real life accounts of people who went through the trials showing they were in range at least 80% of the time. Unless, of course, Medtronic paid them to write their accounts only to benefit Medtronic?
@Tiaraj1181 : Just keep in mind previous medtronic CGM’s arent applicable here. The Guardian3 is a new beast.
And Id like to remind people glucose monitors arent 100% accurate either. They are allowed a +/-20% accuracy.
As mentioned, I am not disputing the FDA approvals or anything like that.
I simply have trouble believing a graph from Medtronic which is designed to show how great their product is when the graph is showing the sensor controlling the pump to keep the user within range and the way it is showed to be within range is based on the sensor data. I can say it no other way than this is circular logic.
Yes. To a point. If and when I go back on the 670g I’ll have to be in manual mode for, at least, a week. That is specifically for it to learn my quirks and what works for me. My problem with the 670g system wasn’t the pump, it was the high sensitivity of the sensor and having to charge it. I.hate.that.
Otherwise, I liked the other aspects of the 670g. For me, the deal breaker was the low quality support, the sensor, and my hope that they won’t be the only game in town for long. We’ll see. I think that third part is questionable.
I’m just saying I’m not inclined to try the new one on account of the headaches I’ve had with the other. Sorry if my comment doesn’t apply. I’ll swap out the 630 for the 670 just because I can make an even trade but I’m done with Medtronic.
I get that, but then I also get that that it would be a freshman-level scientific error to only test that way without some third source and I guess I’m naive enough to imagine a) the FDA wouldn’t let them get away with it and b) they wouldn’t want to commit it because they actually do want to know how well their system is functioning.
Definitely, try it. I’m not discouraging anyone. In fact, I want everyone on it it. I’ll learn from them and maybe I’ll be convinced to come back quicker.
Yes, that bothers me too. I’m currently using the 630 with my Dexcom CGM because I’m interested enough in the 670G’s auto capability that I’m willing to give Guardian 3s a chance, but the advantages of running standard Enlites with the 630, such as they are (suspend before low) aren’t enough to pry me away from my Dexcom G5, which I’m very comfortable with. My feeling is that if the 670 isn’t up to the hype, I’ll just go back to running it on manual, use G5 for CGM and–like you say–sit tight and see what else comes along.
In case I’ve given the impression I’m a hidebound M-t fan, I actually switched to the Assante Snap for three months before the company cratered because they were so much more of a user-centric design. In practice I found that they did a lot of things right, though their occlusion hypersensitivity was a big problem and they didn’t have any kind of CGM compatibility. But my experience with them makes me very interested in what Bigfoot comes up with. I was also really attracted by T:Slim’s remote updater–that is SO overdue in the industry–and almost went with them this time around but there were other aspects that turned me off (not least that they were really slow about returning my calls, not a good sign). But all these developments are indicators that, as you say, M-t “won’t be the only game in town for long,” which is good for all of us.
It’s been quite informative reading all of the comments about hybrid loop 670g system.
I converted to the 630g with Enlite sensors about 6 months ago so I am part of the Priority Access program to upgrade to the 670g for $299 (which can be offset if I return the 630g within 120 days, take 3 surveys and upload my results to Carelink - sounds like Medtronic is still trying to capture trial data).
Regardless, my hope for converting to the 670g was to get an improved sensor. The Enlite is not very accurate, but I have learned to use it as a tool gauge instead of an accurate way to set a bolus. My endo told me the Dexcom CGM was more accurate, but I have used a Medtronic pump all of my pump life and decided to stay with Medtronic.
I will say that since implementing the 630g and Enlite system, I have had a huge drop in my Ha1c which is my goal. That being said, if I was to convert to 670g just to get a more accurate sensor, it sounds like the new Guardian3 will not meet my needs.
The other thing that is bothering me about the 670g is the Dual and Square wave bolus are removed. I use the dual often, and maybe the new basal adjustment will compensate for that, but I’m getting beyond trying to ‘start from scratch’ all over again when my control is pretty good now.
The only other thing I will say is I have learned to take a few steps to ‘trick’ my pump when the sensor is not close to reporting what my BG shows through a finger stick. At night, I always turn off all sensors (except the low automatically stays on). If the low awakes me and I test with significantly different results (sensor to BG), I will allow the sensor to wake me only 2 times before I turn the thing off and then restart it in the morning. It’s a shame to have to do this, but it does not happen often.
Thanks for comments. I think I too will wait on the 670g and see what my future holds for other technology.
The thing is the 670g is automatic, so they don’t want us controlling insulin delivery once we go into the auto mode. Once I was in auto-mode, the pump seemed to handle my sugars just fine. Remember the pump is learning you and your patterns. Actually, the positive take away from wearing the 670g for a couple of weeks was that: learning from the pump that I was way too aggressive with corrections and that I needed to ride the highs out because the insulin I have onboard is working.
Again, where they lost me was their crap customer support and the glitches I experienced with the sensor. I don’t want to warn people off the system. If you’re Medtronic-loyal, you’re probably one of the best people to try it.
customer support and the glitches I experienced with the sensor. I don’t want to warn people off the system. If you’re Medtronic-loyal, you’re probably one of the best people to try it.