Beware, be careful - California DMV Suspension for Diabetes - no due process

@anon25142758

Honestly, the people that work for the DMV? These guys are just trying to work and earn a living just the same as you. Only they have to deal with thousands of people in line, some that get rude.

By the way, it really helps to make an appointment, you still have a wait time, but it isn’t as horrible. It will probably get worse fast as with the new license that they have to try to issue again. But it’s not the “fault” of the people that work there.

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They are not like me. I have a soul and could never sit there all day messing with peoples lives to get money.

“The computer says you owe the crooked system $600 due to getting snagged by our latest revenue generation scam or our own mistake we will never apologize for” You are suspended… How you get to work and your kids to school not my problem…

Please don’t ever say those people are just like me.

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That’s what the Nazi guards said after the war. “just following orders” we just worked there.

AND they went extra slow to get that overtime. It was SO obvious !! They wanted a big line after closing.

I had to renew mine a couple of months ago. I received the renewal notice in January. The notice informed me I had to come into the DMV for a new picture and I could not renew my license through the website. The only appointment they had available was 1 day after my license expired in April. No big deal really. It took an hour of waiting to check in and then the process was painless. The woman that helped me was friendly. I would not trade jobs with them for all the money in the world.

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I sure hope the law is more specific than that. That describes almost every human about once every 12 hrs.

I’m not sure how due process applies. I’m pretty sure that, in every state, driving is a privilege, not a right. I think in modern society, that should be reconsidered. Even if it is a full right, they should require cause to suspend one’s license. There should be a appeal process and criteria should be well defined and germain.

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I don’t agree that this is comparable to nazism. There is a measurable collective risk associated with having diabetes in many activities, including driving. There is NO risk of any sort associated with being Jewish. And diabetes isn’t only condition with such a risk. That doesn’t imply a risk to every individual in the group, but they need to do their due diligence.

I agree with problems you point out. They can improve HOW the do their due diligence. My experiences at the Maryland DMV have been similar in the past, but they have made substantial improvements over the years. That makes it all the more frustrating. There are solutions that they can apply, but aren’t.

Best wishes.

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@TJG,

Excellent lawyer-ing. I never thought of that.

That’s the way they want it. I dug up a little for you. They are trying to erase this notion of liberty from history.


CASE #3: “The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment.” Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125. CASE #4: "The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government.

My favorite example of their abuse is taking driver licences of people who fall behind on child support so they can’t get to work and get deeper in the hole. They know many people are going to use their cars anyway then they get to catch some and dig them a deeper hole wile simultaneously enriching themselves and funding there precious pensions with fines fees and court costs.

Our founding fathers were geniuses, they gave us really good stuff. Terrible how we don’t follow those rules anymore and live under criminal overlords once again.

Ok bottom line on this, before they take your driving for any reason you are entitled to a trial by a jury of your peers. That is due process. That was what our founders put in as a check against the government class abusing the people.

The took juries out a long time ago.

I am an insulin dependent diabetic since 1956- for 63 years. I am a retired Los Angeles Superior Court Judge, having sat on the bench from 1989-2013. I still judge to fill in for judges on medical leave. I have severe hypoglycemia unawareness. Before DEXCON CCM, I ALWAYS TOOK A BLOOD TEST BEFORE I DROVE. BE PREPARED. I always have plenty of jelly beans in my car should I need them. Getting stuck in horrible traffic is part of driving in LA. Those jelly beans come in handy. Driving is a privilege & not a right. Don’t kill innocent people or yourself. Make sure your blood sugar is safe before you start your engine! It may be your own children you must protect.

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I think the implication that diabetics cannot safely operate a car without filling out state paperwork is silly. That is the position taken by, maybe, 4 out of 50 states. It is a fringe position. How many times has the state been unable to fulfill its obligations with regard to that paperwork? For me, tens of times - leading to suspension of my license, threats of jail time, and putting me in unsafe situations where I have to bike miles along a dangerous road in 100 degree heat to get to public transportation until they filed their piece of paper (six weeks late).

As someone with disability, I can overcome those challenges. Yet, the state is still unable to keep their paperwork straight. Imagine if I were able to hold them to the same standard that they hold me…Which one of us is actually disabled? Me? Or, the state gov?

Posting the fact that the American Diabetes Association declares this behavior as legally discriminatory has been flagged as, “…inappropriate : the community feels it is offensive, abusive, or a violation of our community guidelines.” I would, however, simply describe this as a statement a fact.

Home glucose monitoring was demonstrated to improve glycemic control of type 1 diabetes in the late 1970s, and the first meters were marketed for home use around 1981.

So you never operated an automobile until 1981 ?

All those years in the courtroom you must have saw that question coming, lol

Makes sense to test before driving even if you know you are good as the reading could be used as proof an accident is not diabetes related if that accusation came up.

Apologies if I missed this in the thread somewhere, but has anyone actually posted any data—or have the states that have these laws ever seen any data—that indicates a correlation between insulin dependency and increased accident rates? Here’s one study that indicates it’s the opposite, though not by a huge margin:

RESULTS: The estimated overall annual accident rate for the non-diabetic population was 1469 per 100,000 vs. 856 per 100,000 for the diabetic population as a whole (Chi-squared, P < 0.001). On stratification of the groups by age, within the insulin-treated group there was no significant difference in the accident rate compared to the non-diabetic population, with relative risks between 0.51 [confidence interval (CI) 0.25-1.05] and 1.13 (CI 0.88-1.46).

CONCLUSIONS: Our findings suggest that insulin-treated patients as a group do not pose an increased risk to road safety. They reiterate the need for an individualized risk-based assessment when considering driving restrictions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445171

The thing that really bugs me about this whole topic is not the civil rights aspect but the fact that the statutes appear to be based on fact-free assumptions and “stuff everybody knows” rather than actual, y’know, data. Which doesn’t appear to support them.

ETA: this study was done in England. I’ve seen one from Norway and an older one from Scotland with similar findings. Haven’t found any American ones yet.

ETA 2: This seems like a decent scientific survey of the whole question, from US studies:

Laws that require all people with diabetes (or all people with insulin-treated diabetes) to be medically evaluated as a condition of licensure are ill advised because they combine people with diabetes into one group rather than identifying those drivers who may be at increased risk due to potential difficulties in avoiding hypoglycemia or the presence of complications. In addition, the logistics of registering and evaluating millions of people with diabetes who wish to drive presents an enormous administrative and fiscal burden to licensing agencies. States that require drivers to identify diabetes should limit the identification to reports of diabetes-related problems.

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Good stuff !

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Ooooh, thanks for that, @DrBB. I thought I was gonna have to analyze the data myself from DOT and Public Safety. That really saves me some effort. Your the best !!!

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In Australia you must get a note from the doctor your diabetes is in control to get a license. Then like all other drivers your ok to ride. If cali goes down the line it’s pursuing, everyone will end up in rubber rooms protected from themselves and each other.

I think marking no might open up an insulin dependent diabetic to liability in case of a bad accident. I stopped marking no when my hypo unawareness got really bad. So before I moved to MA and got a MA license, I found the MA form and had my OH doc fill it out before I moved. The form was really for someone who had an actual problem, but it was the only form I could find. It took the folks at the licensing office 15 or so minutes to decide what to do with the form, and I did get my license. I’ll do the same thing when I move back to OH.

/nevermind

In Pennsylvania regs are renewed online - and licenses every 4 years or 2 years your choice

I never had to wait more then 5 minutes as they have locations everywhere

@Tony24 Not typical Southern California, Appointments aren’t that bad. But if you have to go in without an appointment I’ve known several people that have had to wait 4-7 hours before they get helped.

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