Do you wonder why so many of us get confused and angry about diet advice? Last month, at AADE, I heard Christine Kessler, a respected researcher, say, eat the protein (which almost always includes fat, no?) first, so your brain gets the hormonal satiety signals secreted by the gut as soon as possible, and then eat the veggies, and save the carbs till last. And she was able to prove her case by talking about which hormone does what.
So what did I get today? A newsletter from the UCLA Division of Geriatrics, called Healthy Years, that says, in an article quoting UCLA dietitian Dana Hunnes, RD: “My biggest secret is to eat fruits, vegetables and whole grains first. Then eat your other carbs and fats, because hopefully you’ll be too full to eat much of those.” Of course, she didn’t even MENTION protein, and shows no particular awareness of adipose, gut and brain hormones, just condemns fat. And not just supposedly unhealthy fats, but ALL fats. And this lady is TEACHING nutrition at a prestigious college like UCLA?
I don’t deal well with direct contradiction from supposed experts – it just makes me want to throw ALL their advice in the garbage can. And I can’t be alone in feeling that way. Do you think “nutrition” will EVER turn into a science instead of a free-for-all? Grumble, grumble!
I’m not sure all carbs are created equal. I switched from lunch meat to peanut butter (= more carbs…) and noticed that I felt “cleaner” or “smoother” while I was working out after a few weeks? I’ve gotten some complaints from the other half (of the sandwich…MrsAcidRock…) that the sandwiches are getting too loaded up w/ PB but they are good. I’ve also ditched the ham and scrambled eggs to add in some broccoli, a couple servings/ day, and it seems to produce the same sort of “buzz” so some of the dietician spiel seems to have some merit? It seems like the focus or target of a lot of diets is the approach to carbs though, even “low carb”/ Bernstein/ etc. diets are still carb oriented, even in their aversiont to them?
Same old story Natalie, YDMV and we are basically on our own, especially as each of us is different. I see so often the perspective that if it works for me it must be right, therefore everyone else is wrong. (Well, not so much here at TuD
It’s like teaching… if my brand new modern method of teaching reading works, it must be better than the others. Vanilla or chocolate? Democrat or Republican? MDI or pump?
All we can do is take it all in and separate the wheat from the chaff. Keep what works for us and forget the rest. I’ve learned more here than from supposed experts.
Broccoli doesn’t have much in the way of carbs, but is rich in phytonutrients. So, by eating it, you’re definitely doing something nutritious but not high-carb. PB has a lot of fat in it, which will moderate the rise caused by the carbs, and really, how much can you eat? A couple of tablespoons full? Nuts have good nutrition, too. My beef is with the idea that you have to eat a lot of grains and fruits. I don’t mind a little, but I think Americans definitely eat too much.
I agree jrtpup, sweeping generalizations regarding nutrition should probably be treated with skepticism. When you think about it, our genetic heritage is so diverse, some are still really close to hunter gatherers, while others descend from people who’s ancestors had at least some time to adapt to the agricultural revolution. A significant portion of us are lactose intolerant others are not. To top it all off many of us are hybrids of differing genetic heritages.
So pragmatism would seem to be the order of the day, or in a diabetes context, trust your meter.
Yep, you’re right, BadM. Tonight I had dinner at my brother’s – some delicious chicken in a sugar-based marinade, the small half of a corn cob, some salad, and couldn’t resist – a piece of French bread. Yeah. And my BG was 175 2 hours after the meal, in spite of trying to dose insulin correctly for it. I haven’t been that high for ages (like, not even a year!). So much easier for me to avoid those carbs than to try to dose for them, except when I’m tempted! And I guess I have that old hunter-gatherer metabolism, too.
I understand your frustration on these “health freaks” of the so called experts - especially when they are so anti fat!
Fat is necessary in the diet, not over much, but all the proteins we eat contain fat! I can think of several - fish, lean meat, eggs, etc!
I was testing in a restaurant the other day and there was a woman on another table speaking loudly about someone who was diababetic and stating that this person should not eat carbs at all and that protein should keep the blood sugar levels low and steady throughout the day, and that when she (the speaker) did not have protein at breakfast she was shakey - and that meant that her blood sugars were too high! WRONG!! They are probably too low. She was also quoting the much bandied theory that all diabetics start out fat and they all eat too many sweets! I was getting ready to go somewhere and needed my carbs and protein which was about to come - toast and bacon with the fat off! I was too tired and busy to get into an arguement with this woman. She was talking soo much rubbish that it was sickening to listen to and I had to turn my hearing aids off! I would loved to have put her right - babies are diabetic but they have had no opportunity to eat too many sweets, nor are they necessarily fat! Some people (like myself, have tumours on their pancreases - or is it pancreae?), others are just unlucky!
If you really want to know, it’s pancreata. The only reason I know that is that I read medical papers!
Update to previous post: I finally peaked out at 191 – from what I really thought was a minimal amount of carbs. I admit to not being very good at carb counting – at home, I just eat the same things most of the time and I know how many carbs to bolus for. But I guess I needed a reminder that, guess what – I have diabetes!
I would wonder if perhaps my carb ratio could be nudged a point to make the shot a little bit bigger? 175 is not awful but a lot of times, adjusting my C/I ratio like a point will move my BG 30 or 40 points in whichever direction, which would end up right about 130-40 or where you are supposed to be. Of course, once I start doing that, I might also think “hmmm, if one click is good, two clicks are better…” in a wierd Animal Farm parody and my BG will end up in the toilet? This week I am trying to pound in some extra carbs all over the place as we have a bigger run this weekend. munch munch
Well, I finally peaked out at 191, took a correction, it went a little bit down, and then right back up again. Since I’m lazy, and didn’t want to spend all night fighting it, I went to sleep and woke up at 143, still not what I consider desirable. And now, after drinking a cup of tea with half and half I’m back up to 188, and rising rapidly. I will wait for the insulin I took to do its work, but it looks like correction city today. ONE lousy piece of bread and half an ear of corn! It’s clear that I’m just not cut out to eat grains! And I HAVE been making the effort to get a little exercise (Will never compete with you, but a little is better than nothing?).
So I need to pay attention next time I’m confronted with such a situation – if I overestimate, there are always glucose tablets! (Major yuck!)
Another way to consider it is that if the ratio is “off”, the CB was “missing” from the meal bolus. A slight ratio adjustment would fix that and you’d have been right on the money? Instead of saying the bread is “lousy”, just meet it head-on?
You’re undoubtedly right – I just need to know that bread and corn are not “innocent” and they pack a wallop. Time to stop being paranoid about how much insulin I take (current 28-day average is just over 27 units), and knock those suckers down when I need to. CGM is currently saying 246 with 2 arrows up, but I’m almost sure it’s faking me out, and I’m going to go test to see what reality is!!!
I’m not a dietitian but I am convinced I will take all their papers as having no more “proof” than I do a journalist’s/eye witness’ words. They “have to publish” if they want to be promoted, so they publish as do all faculty in universities. I feel for them when they finish their academic life as they look back and say, “What did I do?” Teaching is ludicrous unless there is something really worthy to teach that someone must learn. And think of the $ tuition paid by students for this!
Science changes faster than any of them can possibly keep up. Academic publications have their rules and even work against some findings.
So there’s no one to believe except our own little research outcomes on our own bodies! This is the state of nutrition for a PWD.
Except I do find the big book Nutritive Value of American Foods, Agriculture Handbook No. 456 from the US Dept of Agriculture to be a useful reference. They could have stopped researching after that one as far as I’m concerned.
Natalie I’m also reluctant to take ‘too much’ insulin. My last average basal+bolus was 34.2. I horrify myself if I need to take over 2-3 units (not incl. correction) for whatever I’m eating. The occasional times when we eat out and I spurge, nothing horrible has happened LOL. I think for me it’s more a focus on a ‘lot’ of isullin=a lot of carbs. My average carbs per day for that same period was 31, which I like!
And this would be the reason why I don’t really listen to dieticians. They tell you to eat carbs, lots of carbs, but 20 years ago the model “diabetic diet” was high in protein and low in carbs. I personally have great success bring my BGs under relatively good control with a daily carb intake hovering around 90-120. When I last met with a dietician (had to in order to get a pump again), she told me that she wanted me eating around 200 carbs per day. I told her what this would do to my blood sugar and her response was that if my BG was getting THAT wacky on 200 carbs a day, it was because I wasn’t taking my insulin properly. WHATEVER. I thanked her and left. Needless to say, I don’t hold dieticians in very high regard. Most of them don’t have a clue about what it takes to MANAGE blood sugar levels.
Why would you expect the advice for diabetics to be the same as the advice for the population at large? The AADE was basing their recommendation on slowing the rate at which carbs enter your bloodstream. Perfectly reasonable advice for diabetics.
The UCLA dietitian was basing her recommendation on trying to maintain or lose weight and wasn’t aimed at the diabetic population. She wasn’t targeting only fat, but also “other carbs”, i.e. sugars. Fiber is filling, so if you eat the foods that contain fiber (fruits, vegetables, whole grains), then her theory is that you’ll eat less food in total (less sugar and fat). Perfectly reasonable advice (assuming her theory is correct) for the population at large.
We diabetics aren’t a majority of the population - so I wouldn’t expect that every message will be targeted specifically at us.
You know, y’all need to get pregnant, then you will find out a whole new meaning to ‘taking too much insulin’. 2-3 units? Don’t make me laugh! Mornings, I need 3 units just for a cup of tea with a splash of milk and no sugar! On the rare mornings I wake up with BG above target, then all I can have is hot water as anything else will push me above 140, even with a bolus. One particularly bad morning, it was 6 units of insulin to zero grams of carb. How about that for ‘too much’ insulin?
Lila, if I ever got pregnant again, it would have to be the second coming, because that’s the ONLY way it could happen, LOL!!!
But yes, pregnancy really does screw with your body, and your insulin needs will continue to change as you go along. Doing the stuff that women with functioning pancreases don’t even have a clue about.
And I’m NOT claiming that pup and I are being RATIONAL in any way – but I’m sure that we are not the only people who get our emotions tied up with our diabetes. In my case, it’s because I tend to feel guilty if I take “too much” insulin – as if I was causing my diabetes myself, which I know intellectually is not true, but try telling that to my emotions. I struggle with the blame game, even when I know it’s not true. I’ve been struggling since last night to bring down my BGs to my usual level, and so I will have definitely taken more insulin than usual before today is over. The trick is to accept that, yes, its the result of being more lax than usual about my eating, but what’s wrong with indulging on a rare occasion, and what’s wrong with treating it properly?
I admit to not being very good at carb counting – at home, I just eat the same things most of the time and I know how many carbs to bolus for. But I guess I needed a reminder that, guess what – I have diabetes!