Discrimination of Type 2 Diabetics?

Having a baby larger than 9 lb. is a good indication that you carry the genes for Type 2. Plus it was in your family. So you did nothing to get it, other than being born into the wrong family with the wrong genes. (Bet you love them anyway! :slight_smile: )

Fat does NOT cause Type 2 diabetes. That’s just one of the myths perpetuated by the media and the medical profession. It is true that obesity has a correlation with Type 2, but correlation does not equal cause. And those people with Type 2 who are obese, nevertheless ONLY got it because they had the genes. New research is showing that there are a lot of other things going on in the body of someone with Type 2, and they are NOT under your control!

The most important thing for you is to have the self-esteem not to let the ignorant blamers get to you. EVERYONE should eat healthy and exercise, not just Type 2’s, and after that, there is no fault involved. You just hold your head high and do your best to stay as healthy as possible, and don’t listen to the ignorant and stupid!

I think this problem will go away as the causes of type 2 are discovered.

I agree with that. Especially with increasing emerging evidence T2 can also be autoimmune in nature. People are forgetting an important thing. Insulin is the hormone controlling fat deposition. People who are insulin resistant pump out tons of insulin and the insulin triggers excess fat deposition. The fat is a symptom, not a cause. I was likely undxed for years, felt weak and horrible, and fell down in slow motion and got fat. When it all started I was working 6 days a week up to 18 hours a day doing hard labor. How can a normal person get fat doing that? Once I was dxed I cut my carbs and have lost 45+ pounds in less than two months on an otherwise calorie unrestricted diet. The reduction in carbs cut my unnatural insulin output allowing the fat to melt away, simple as that. Some people can genetically handle carbs and others are T2s. Blaming people for not being able to process glucose makes about as much sense as blaming genetically lactose intolerant people for not being able to digest lactose, a sugar in milk. As Americans followed the USDA food pyramid suggestion of carbs as the foundation of the diet diabetes and obesity exploded. Think about it. It reminds me of when people would try to make lactose intolerant me drink milk. Turns out the majority of the world population has a genetic combination making them lactose intolerant. Talk to most white people of European stock and they have no clue. Unfortunately people like that make the pyramid for everyone.

As I read these blogs it makes me think that I get some much more valid information in sites like these. As I read some of the magazines put out by organizations and look at their recipes, I am dismayed. Everyone is different and you can’t put us all into the same box. As diabetes does not run in my family (no one has ever had it) I was devastated when I was diagnosed with Type 2. As I have little support in my life for this disease, I rely on sites such as this one and have not been let down. Perhaps the information from these sites could be useful to the ADA and other organizations as I feel overall they are too “institutional” and put everyone into the same box. I appreciate all the comments here because people have done their research. Like most organizations who represent groups such as the American Cancer Society, etc. I have always felt that they are lacking in the depth of knowledge that exists and can learn by talking to their patients. Diabetes is a very frustrating disease and we need to educate people on better eating habits for everyone in this country. When I went to my diabetes educator, what was helpful was learning to be more insightful about reading labels on food products. As far as I diet they suggested to me, I did research on my own and came up with a much better diet that works far better than the one they had suggested which was a modified SAD. So, kudo’s and thanks to all of you who provide great info and research on this site!

Genes may predispose you to diabetes, but they don’t cause it (very few diseases are caused by genes alone). What hasn’t gotten much attention yet are the other environmental factors that have actually been shown to cause insulin resistance in animals (and are associated with it in humans) – a number of environmental chemicals. These chemicals can affect beta cells, promote autoimmunity, promote fat cells, etc., and exposure is associated with diabetes in humans. See www.diabetesandenvironment.org, or the National Toxicology Program’s summary of the scientific evidence: http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/evals/diabetesobesity/index.html.

The Collaborative on Health and the Environment will be holding an informational call on the topic (tentatively scheduled for May 12), see http://www.healthandenvironment.org/partnership_calls/8928.

Please help me if I am wrong…genes normally are stimulated (or activated) by other factors like the environment/population/etc then they start doing “things” that will cause the body to breakdown into insulin resistance or a disease? What happens in the case of known genetic diseases like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell…how is that different than insulin resistance?



I know this sounds completely juvenile the way I stated my question but I am sure you understand my point. thanks!

Well, I’m not sure I understand this entirely, but I’ll give it a shot–
in Tay-Sachs, for example, a defective gene can cause the disease because the gene is in charge of producing a certain protein and then it doesn’t do its job (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002390/)

In diabetes, there have been “genetic association” studies where they try to figure out which genes are more common in people with diabetes as compared to people without diabetes. They have identified a number of these genes, for both type 1 and type 2 (and LADA is in the middle, with some of each). But that doesn’t mean that if you have those genes, you’ll get the disease. In type 1, only about 50% of identical twins will both develop the disease if one has it. So there’s an increased risk, but it’s not cut and dry. (And remember that these twins share both genes and usually an environment also, if they live together).

Various environmental factors do influence genes, like you said. Chemicals can do that, so can various dietary factors. There are different ways they can do that, like causing epigenetic changes (changes that don’t affect the DNA itself but its packaging). Some of these changes, like the epigenetic ones, can be passed down through generations as well. There is some explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-environment_interaction

And here’s a good article called “Good Genes Gone Bad” about how environmental factors affect gene function: http://prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=11315#
One example the author uses is bisphenol A (which is found in canned food liners and some plastics). It can affect the function of 200 genes, including ones that control metabolism. So in this way, exposure could promote insulin resistance, and does do so in animals, via affecting those genes (although scientists are still trying to figure out the exact mechanisms involved).

Thanks for bringing this up sarhow.

I spent many years working as a carpenter. In the course of my work I used lots of wood treated with the then standard CCA (Chromated Copper Arsenate). I researched it and according to the best available evidence at the time it was safe so I never took any special precautions beyond washing my hands before eating. CCA is no longer used but I see in your link http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/evals/diabetesobesity/index.html. that exposure to arsenic may be a factor in T2 and a possible route of exposure is sawdust from treated wood.

Is this why I got T2, who knows. But this should be investigated further instead of saying we brought it on ourselves.

There’s quite good evidence that arsenic can contribute to type 2 diabetes, especially at high doses. Low doses are more controversial, but there’s some evidence for that also. I’ve seen studies on people exposed via other occupations, and via drinking water, but not carpentry.
Here’s my page on arsenic: https://sites.google.com/site/envirodiabetes/home/contam/arsenic
It absolutely should be investigated.

Thanks for commenting on the epigenetic and environmental links. Precious little is yet known about them, except that they exist – more proof that Type 2’s DONT bring it on themselves, but that these epigenetic and environmental factors exacerbate the pre-existing susceptibility.

From what I can tell, most people (ignorance is great fun - sarcasm here), if they can’t “SEE” a medical problem, in their minds, that person, a T2 in this case, doesn’t have a medical problem. This same thinking applies to other medical problems like having a bad knee or a bad back or perhaps IBS or some other problem.

If they can’t “SEE” the problem, they think there is nothing wrong and expect you to do everything a ‘normal’ person would.
For those ignorant people out there, if they hear the hype of some affliction, they automatically assume that you aren’t able to do the job and either not hire you or not promote you or some other situation. While this knee-jerk reaction is bad, it does warrant some merit for legal discrimination. Such as an airline or fighter pilot, truckers that handle explosives and haz-mat, or other intense public safety issues. Let’s fact it. We are NOT normal. We can go hypo with medications or have other problem if too high, thus risking public safety.

In most situations, a cashier working for a chain store should NEVER be discriminated against on the basis of diabetes. Worst case for them is they pass out at the checkout and no harm to others would prevail.

Yes, there IS a lot of discrimination against diabetics out there. Many employers do not want the hassle or risk associated with hiring someone with a medical problem due to having to make reasonable accommodations, possible extended or regular absences from work, or higher insurance premiums, or similar excuses.

And then there are those who abuse their disease. They use it to shirk their responsibilities at work. And yes, there are MANY who do this, even non diabetics will try to do as little as possible.

There is a common denominator with T2 diabetes that people are overlooking. The use of preservatives back in the 1970’s for example. And other things like pesticides.

Maybe someone should try to discover the relationship between items used in the 1970’s that were banned in the 80’s & later versus the ages of T2 diabetics today.

I suspect there is a carbon atom that is the culprit. There are many isotopes of carbon too. Many forms of carbon are altered in a chemical process and we are exposed to those new forms.

Think of diabetes like this:

You have an old lock & key (AKA your body and insulin).
The lock gets worn out over the years and the key doesn’t work well or at all any more.
You need a locksmith (doctor) to come fix it for you. They give you a new key (insulin), but the lock still doesn’t work like it should.

The only way to fix it (not replace it mind you - you can’t replace your body yet) is for a locksmith to come out, and replace one or more of the tumblers (atoms or molecules) in the lock. This isn’t possible today, but may be soon once they unlock the rest of the gene mapping and finish developing nanobot machines to do the repairs.

Be forewarned that the use of nanobots can be easily abused by any government or company. They can be used to alter your brain and your thinking, turning you into mindless followers/slaves. Think ‘Stepford Wives’ here, in a way.

Nanobots can also benefit people by infusing people with superhuman abilities as well. Like the ability to heal nearly instantly, work without sleep or rest for an indefinite period of time (thus making companies more money and governments more tax revenue), super strength, IQ’s into the thousands, many many wondrous things. And death would only be by accident. You could live nearly forever.

If the world can survive the next few years, we may even be able to experience the beginnings of no disease or afflictions.

But GREED and overpopulation will be our unfortunate demise. This planet is only capable of comfortably supporting 250,000,000 people, not 7 billion people.

Back to the topic - with unemployment being at or near record levels, employers have the unique luxury of picking and choosing their employees and making the work environment harsh. If you don’t like it, there are 1,000 other people who would gladly take your job mentality. If you have a medical condition, they can simply ignore you and go on to someone who is more healthy - thus discrimination.

If I were an employer, I may be enticed into hiring only healthy people. Less liability and problems that way in the long run.

Another way an employer can discriminate is to instil weight restrictions. Perhaps make all employees be within their health weight range. Or an A1C of under 5.7 to prevent future insurance expenses.
Many things like that.

If everyone wanted to tackle many of these problems, they should start by becoming healthy, especially their kids.
Skip the fries and no more soft drinks. And of course nothing after 6pm except water. You would be surprised at how fast obesity and other medical problems evaporate in short order.

Many of the health problems today cannot be attributed to chemicals and such. Much of it people bring on themselves by their unhealthy lifestyle.

Let’s say you had a choice between a healthy T2 and a FAT unhealthy T2. Assume both were equally qualified for the job. Which would you choose as your employee? If you pick the healthy one, you are discriminating on the basis of body weight.

Ever wonder why airlines regularly discriminate against fat people and men regarding stewardesses? It’s not only a gender excuse, but a body weight problem. Men and fat people weight more. It costs more to fly that extra weight around.

Personally, I feel that airlines should charge a base rate (say body weight of 150 pounds base), then add $5 per pound over that weight to cover costs. And if you can’t fit into the seat you are assigned, then you be forced to pay for the additional seat. This is EXTREMELY fair. But some feel it is discrimination. Do you want to pay higher ticket prices because some fatso next to you can fly as cheaply as you when it costs more to haul their excess bodyweight around than it does yours?

For those who refuse to take proper care of their health, then they should be discriminated against, and HARSHLY too.

And no, thyroid issues can be corrected very easily. Abuse of insulin can be fixed easily too.

In Japan and China, employers make their employees perform compulsory exercises right before any shift. It works well too. But the American people are too coddled and refuse to allow this practice.

For me, I don’t have to worry much about diabetic discrimination due to my situation. And if there is a problem, I simply explain it to them. If you have great work ethics, no matter what your disease or affliction is, you can easily be accommodated. But most people have awful work ethics like yakking on the cell phone during work hours, surfing the Internet for personal reasons during work, arriving late, not doing their job, stealing either property or time, etc. This makes employers suspicious of diabetics. They know it’s an expensive disease and may tempt employees to steal.

So, in summation, yes, discrimination abounds. But it’s not all the fault of the employer.

How about not telling an employer about your disease until AFTER you are hired? In the USA, no typical employer is allowed to ask you for that info, with few exceptions.

To pass a physical, just keep your A1C NORMAL (very possible for T2’s if they get their head out of the sand), your weight NORMAL, blood pressure normal, etc. Then they wouldn’t have any reason to believe that you have a problem.

I got my A1C down from 6.8 at time of Dx to 5.1 recently. I have had normal A1C’s for the past 9 months. And I can pass almost any physical without suspicion. Diet and exercise is the key.
For me, I have a very defective 1st phase insulin release, and an inhibited 2nd phase. I use insulin to control that problem very effectively. Diet and exercise worked better than anything except I couldn’t stop the weight loss. Insulin fixed that problem.

I would be happy to help anyone with their blood sugar problems. FYI: I am not a medical expert, just another diabetic who found a way to control this disease effectively. While everyone is different, the system I followed will work and anyone, diabetic or not. And the system doesn’t cost a thing. I learned all of it from places like here and other places on the Internet.

You can avoid discrimination simply by not telling anyone anything unless you have to. And by keeping your disease well hidden by keeping under very tight control.

Oh, here’s my A1C stats since I was diagnosed:

6.8
5.7
5.8
5.3
5.2
5.1

I gained a bit of weight over the winter, but can easily lose that should I choose to. Otherwise, no one would ever know I was diabetic unless I told them. Hence, discrimination wouldn’t be a problem for me. Many of the people I know, know I am diabetic and either don’t care or haven’t got a clue as to the disease. They just go on about things as usual.

Hide your disease and discrimination isn’t a problem.
I can help you with that as well if you don’t know how.

Just contact me through here.

PS do NOT blindly listen to the ‘experts’ in the nutrition and diabetic fields. Most of them are totally wrong, especially the nutritionists. If 2 million sites tell you one thing and your doctor tells you another, something is amiss and warrants further investigation on YOUR part. Ignore it and only YOU are the one to suffer, no one else.
I will give you a hint- there is one ‘magic’ pill that can help everyone. It’s available almost everywhere. it’s called a MULTIVITAMIN! (got that one from the Dr OZ show - lol)

They are investigating a deficiency in Vitamin D as a cause of Type 1. Also investigating if there were a “batch” of bad vaccines given at a young age that causes Type 1. Unfortunately, Type 1 or Type 2 are neither known of causes.

btw- I explained the Type 2 genetics to my older brother, who is pre-diabetic but barely overweight. He was muttering about obesity and Type 2 and I cut him off, stating that Type 2 needs the genes somewhere along the line, and then some environmental factor that sets the genes off.

It’s a constant battle, but as long as I know where I stand, then I don’t really care if others get it. My doctors dont even understand my disease. oh well.

There is evidence that supports the claim that homogenized milk is responsible for T1.
But pasteurized milk is not.

Too bad you are so biased against the obese. It’s NOT as easy as you think, and it appears, that if you could not stop losing weight, you are not a Type 2, anyway. I’ve never been obese, and yet I know a lot of obese people, and I know what they go through, and how hard they’ve tried, and how much willpower they have, and I simply can’t accept the bias that you show in assuming it’s so easy for them to lose weight and be “normal”. I read websites by obesity doctors, particularly Dr. Arya Sharma, and journals on obesity, and it’s a complex problem with no simple answers. I’d really rather not hear you talk about that “fatso” when you’ve never walked in their shoes.

It’s probably not a bad batch of vaccine, because Type 1 has been affecting people for a long time, and will continue to do so until there is a cure. Incidence of Type 1 is rising, albeit not as fast as Type 2.

I seriously don’t think it’s a vitamin D deficiency either, because this deficiency is extremely common in the US population (and maybe others), and most people who DO have the autoimmune genetics, i.e. identical twins of Type 1’s, don’t get the disease.

I DO care if others get it, because I would spare anyone the suffering that comes along with diabetes, either type. But I acknowledge that the true precipitating factors are simply unknown, and you just have to take whatever life hands you.

The prejudice and assumptions in your post have left me fuming. So, if I take a multivitamin my diabetes and other conditions will go away? I DO take a multivitamin, I STILL have diabetes… hmmmm. I can’t bear to address every statement in your post. How nice for you that you can lose weight easily How can you judge others without walking in their shoes?

Please, is there a way to block a contributor on this site? It’s truly detrimental to me, to read some of the discrimination shown to members here. My own state of “togetherness” regarding my diabetes is sometimes fragile. It’s on going. I beat myself up enough, without coming here for support and finding myself back sliding.

If you find a message offensive, you can report it to one of the administrators, and then it is up to them whether they think it should be removed or not. There is a fine line between an offensive post, and someone just stating their opinion, and I trust the administrators to know the difference.

And PLEASE don’t beat yourself up! In spite of what someone may say, I believe you are doing the best you can with the cards you were dealt, and no one is perfect anyway. I understand your fragile feelings – I have been dealing with guilt and rebellion for 20 years now, and while I’ve gotten better at it, those feelings don’t go away easily. Don’t let that one person get to you – there are SO many people here who DO understand and DO want to support you – you deserve it! Hugs!

I’m sorry, but no prejudice or offence was ever intended.

Yes, a multivitamin is very important, but you have to do other things as well.

Perhaps you should look up paleo diet? And take a multivitamin as well?

Also, basal metabolic rate is a worthwhile research item.

Oh, I did walk in others shoes so to speak. I was quite obese too. A BMI of 33 to be exact. So, I am not biased against anyone.

But that was due to my ignorance and love of bad foods as well as other things like lack of exercise.

Anyway, I feel you all took what I said the wrong way. I am not your opponent in this arena. I am in the same boat as most of you are. I just know things that work, and can work for everyone else too.
Even my own doctor said on more than one occasion that I was a diabetic ‘guru’ .

While what I know can never reverse diabetes or it’s complications, it can forestall future problems.

And the multivitamin comment actually DID come from the Dr Oz TV show.

My formal diagnose is Type 2 diabetes, NIDDM.

And yes, I truly am a diabetic. My 1st phase insulin release is very defective, and 2nd phase goes into overdrive and makes me hypo.

The rapid and nearly uncontrollable weight loss is due to a low carb diet, low 1st phase insulin release, and my body burning all the fat it can for energy.

Here is a fact: high insulin levels retards fat metabolism. Insulin is very effective at converting blood sugars into fat.

Carbs make you fat, fat does not. Carbs raises your blood pressure, fat does not.

Carbs plus fat = very rapid weight gain. This is evident by the government mandates on nutritional facts with fast food.

If you want to lose weight, eat ONLY your basal metabolic rate in the form of a high protein, high fat diet with little or no carbs, and constant exercise. Examples would be sirloin meat, ground chuck, even regular hamburger, but no sauces, salt id forbidden unless you have a medical need, no breads, cereals, obvious bad foods. Then you must briskly walk starting 30 minutes after eating for at least 1-2 miles, then do this 3 times a day. If you are able, do some form of cardio exercise and resistance training. Eat nothing after 6pm or 5 hours before bed time.
Of course, you should make sure you can adjust your meds and insulin.
The fat will fall off your body very quickly. But watch the meds vs what you eat. it’s easy to go hypo while on meds.

Lastly, if you don’t like what I have to say, I am sorry. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.
There is little or no excuse for anyone to be obese. What you eat and do will determine your body weight.

About doctors - most of them only repeat what they were taught in school, and rarely will deviate from that due to liability reasons. The one’s I did find that deviated from the accepted schooling were out to sell you something. With one exception so far - Dr Bernstein, but even he will sell you something…

Another fact: eating high protein will reduce any hunger you may have for extended periods.

This is evident by eating Chinese food versus eating a steak dinner. Remember? After eating Chinese food you are hungry 2 hours later?

Protein and fat are slow to metabolize and you will feel fuller longer with significantly lower blood sugars/spikes.

Note: if you have advanced kidney problems or some other problem that limits your protein consumption, you can still benefit by adjusting your diet.

I could defend my position but what’s the point? You could easily research what I say off the Internet. And please stay away from doctors with non American names. You do not know if they are quacks or not as many of them don’t have a clue. The the Acai berry scam. It was started by someone claiming to be a doctor that had a non American name.

No snake oil remedy will ever help you with the exception of maybe the two following:
Bitter Melon and Jerusalem Artichoke.

Oh, I forgot to mention something. I got my blood sugars and weight normal without eating a single veggie whatsoever. My cholesterol was within 3 points of optimal, and I even managed to adjust my blood pressure down to 80/48 with just diet and exercise alone. How may out there actually know how to do this without a single medication? Note: a blood pressure of 100/60 is that of an Olympic Athlete. But I am not that athlete. I maintained my blood sugars after reaching my goal by the use of insulin.

About the ‘you’re not a T2’. Blood sugars spiking into the mid to upper 200’s is very clearly in the diabetic range. My OGTT came back at 294.
Last Saturday, I forgot to shoot my insulin. My blood sugar spiked to 259 for my 2 hour PP. I then took my insulin, and a short while after, I went hypo (45). This is for the same 10 units I normally take at mealtime.
This alone tells you 2 things - I am a diabetic and I have a defective 1st phase insulin release.

Rarely do I need more than 10 units due to carb intake and exercise. A small amount, but protein doesn’t jack up blood sugars very highly.

I won’t reply to this discussion any more. Seems that I am not welcome.
So, for those who are open minded, don’t have feelings like an eggshell, and want to at least explore an alternative that may help you, please contact me via this web site.

Until then, good luck.

Assumptions? Yes, I will assume that any given fat person is that way because of their choices, unless they prove to me otherwise. Being FAT isn’t a complex issue. It’s all a matter of what you eat versus what you do. And thyroid excuses are just that - excuses. You return the thyroid levels to normal with a simple medication.

I won’t coddle anyone or use politically correct comments. I tell it like it is. There is far too much of that today and the world is getting really screwed up. When it comes to survival, feelings should be tossed out the window and the facts not sugar coated.

pops popcorn oh wait…