DP, FOTF and Sleep Patterns

I just ran across an article and I am curious.

Josh Axe says " During sleep, he pointed out, some of the body’s processes are ramped up. For example, " the liver typically goes through a cleansing process between 11:00 pm and 1:00 am. If you’re awake during that time, your liver probably will not cleanse properly. In addition, your body generally will not produce the right hormones if you don’t sleep at the right times."

So I am curious, I can have bad DP when I don’t take my natural supplements for my thyroid, a major hormone regulator. I usually have a much more mild peak when I am regular about it. But then if don’t have DP, I usually have bad FOTF. Sometimes I have been lucky and curbed both if I have been steadily taking my supplements for a while. (I get lazy and periodically get out of the habit and everything goes nuts DP and FOTF wise).

But I have always been a night owl, I really don’t like to go to sleep until 12:30 am. Reading about not being asleep by 11:00 pm and hormones being possibly unbalanced. I am curious.

So do you have DP or FOTF or both
And are you a night owl or early bird?

I experience both dawn and feet-on-the-floor phenomena (DP and FOTF). Although I think these two things are intertwined.

For most of my working career, I worked the 3 pm to 11 pm shift. I liked that work routine since I hated awaking to an alarm in the morning. This work shift also indulged my propensity to read and snack after work as I became more alert at that time. I thought this was due to being a night-owl.

My sleep, however was not healthy. I required one Rx sleep med, one over-the-counter sleep aid and sometimes even melatonin to pre-empt a 3 am awakening and difficulty returning to sleep.

A few years ago, with the help of a naturopathic physician, I was able to kick both sleep meds and also enjoy consistently good quality sleep without waking up and troubled with not easily returning to sleep. I still use melatonin to help me sleep.

But I still experience some mixture of DP and FOTF morning blood sugar rises. I stopped eating an early meal due to this. I’m able to manage this fairly easily but it does require consistent attention to my sugar levels until the late morning.

I used to be a night-owl, or so I thought, but now go to bed around 9 pm each day and think this is a healthier rhythm for me. I usually wake up between 5 and 5:30 am, even when I go to sleep later, like at 10 pm. So, getting to bed at the same time is important to me as I otherwise lose sleep.


Hi @Marie20 , I have know about DP for a long time but it wasn’t until late January when I got a Deccom G6 that I could see it in action, FOTF as well. I could see a steady rise starting about 3:30 AM. I am an early riser getting up at 5AM.

I too, take a thyroid med, Synthyroid. It is suppose to be taken fasting and to avoid eating or drinking except water for 30 or more minutes. Whether I had DP or not BG would start rising after getting out of bed.

DP is nearly gone since I changed my Basal (Lantus). I have been doing a split dose for years, 2/3rd at bedtime and 1/3rd 12 hours later. This was to prevent hypos at night. I changed the timing to 1/2 at 4PM and 1/2 at rising. Later I split it into 3 doses, which keep DP and FOTF down while decreasing the high rise after the noon meal. I could eat the same exact food for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but I’d get a big hump 2 to 3 hours after lunch regardless of the bolus dose.

This means I am injecting 6 times per day not counting corrections. I try to do some exercise to lower rising BG if I can. The few times I have done a correction I nearly had hypos.

You and my wife are the night owls and I am a morning person. Much as I like to run my mouth, I love my morning alone time, without talking.

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I experience both and rarely sleep before 12 midnight or 1:00 AM. I also rarely sleep more than 4 hours straight. Its the life of a person with RA.I figure neither DP or FOTF are impacted more or less by my sleep cycle. I have slept all night and woke to a BS of 110 however it will go to 170 within in a few minutes. I have also slept fitfully and had my BS do the same thing. Oh and yes also because I have had it happen in reverse often.



I’m definitely a night owl. I’m seldom in bed before 3 am or so, except for once a week or so when it catches up with me and I crash early. I definitely get DP and FOTF. But I thought most of us did? Like, I thought these were generally recognized as normal occurrences. I can’t quite buy into this idea that all our livers are synched to the same exact time cycle and morning rises are our fault for not adhering to the same bedtime. Maybe us night owls just clean house later.

I WOULD buy that this could be a problem with disrupting your normal sleep habits, though. I’ve had pump automation for as long as I’ve had CGM (ran higher basals when it only did low suspend), so I haven’t a difference depending on when I went to sleep or how much sleep I got.

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Night owl here. DP and FOTF seem to be pretty well under control lately although they seem to come and go for me. Lately I have set a basal program that kicks in a basal increase at about 4 AM, seems to help mitigate the DP/FOTF problems. Also, as soon as I wake up in the morning I take a correction bolus if I am above about 100-120, depending on the trend line. That gets me trending in the right direction in time for breakfast.

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