Faux FIASP?


#1

Like many others, my insulin choices are horribly limited by insurance. FIASP and Apidra just aren’t options right now. Since FIASP simply has niacinamide (vitamin B3/niacin) added to it, has anyone seen faster insulin activity simply by taking a niacin supplement additionally? I assume the full-flush variety would be more effective, if it at all. This is pretty much impossible to search for because you get flooded with FIASP topics and web results.

I have reason to be weary of anything with B vitamins because I already have a toxic load of B12. It’s a chronic inflammation marker (which is what’s causing my slow insulin absorption issues, too). Straight niacin shouldn’t be a problem, but I’d love some feedback if it’s worthwhile before trying it.

Thanks!


#2

I have used the real Fiasp and it wasn’t terribly impressive.

Any normal rapid insulin like NovoLog, Humalog, Apedra, or Fiasp will work much faster if you inject it into muscle instead of subcutaneously. I think that would work better for you if you are looking for faster.


#3

I just started using fiasp. Was using NovoLog before.
It is different, but has made a BIG difference for meal time spikes and NO pre-bolus!
I only got two vials to try out from my Endo.
The VA doesn’t carry it yet, so IF it continues to work this well, I will see about ordering it from Canada until the VA hopefully starts covering it.


#4

Can you tell be a bit more about the B vitamin toxic load issue you have.

I’m troubleshooting some issues I’m having with B vitamins too and insulin absorption and I’d like to understand it more.


#5

FWIW, I take a B3 supplement and haven’t noticed any difference with my Novolog uptake. Matter of fact it’s rather slow–as in, I’m pre-bolusing an hour out from eating at midday–which is why I’m about to try FiASP.


#6

Sure thing… To be honest, I sort of creatively applied the term "toxic"to quickly explain my problem. Technically no upper limit has been assigned to B12, because it’s considered safe in healthy adults, and is only ever spoken about in terms of being a symptom in unhealthy ones. In my case, high levels of B12 are often found where there is inflammation, but no medical reason has yet been discovered as to the connection. At least not that I’ve found. It’s just considered a “marker”, and then the inflammation is confirmed by the c-reactive protein test My blood results are kind of scary, though (six times the already massive upper range of the “normal” people they show), and given how awful my family and pets feel, I can’t help of think of it as anything but toxic.

The longer story is essentially that we’ve become a medical mystery that doctors can’t figure out. I am a microbiologist, so I do have more extensive understanding of these things than the average Joe, and am completely fed up with the medical community.

Based upon symptoms, duration, the fact that its zoonotic, and the manner in which the mystery illness progressed, I am 98% percent certain we have a fungal infection, and about 85% certain I know exactly which one. It is supposedly not endemic to Colorado, though, but we do meet similar circumstances to the few cases that have been found. But it’s no wonder it hasn’t been found more given my experience! Basically because we’re so rural, our only option for processing lab work is through LabCorp, and they’re inept. I don’t know if the company as a whole is this bad, or if the one in our area isn’t following proper protocols, but basically they don’t know how to properly test for fungal unknown. From the terse conversation I had with the lab tech, I gathered that they are exclusively looking for yeast and that they are two plate varieties short to actually identify other fungal pathogens. They don’t even look at the one plate they do run for three weeks, by which point any organism that isn’t happy in their restrictive agar may have completely died out and decomposed into nothingness. So maddening! I’ve been told we can’t specify how the tests are run, despite my wanting this culture run on blood agar, which most closely imitates conditions inside the human body. I can run the cultures myself, but I can’t draw a clean blood sample myself… and there’s no way in hell the doctor’s office will send me home with a vial of my own blood.

Basically it all started in the lungs, we haven’t stopped coughing in three years. It progressed to the sinuses, and within a year of that went full system. Weird rashes, intense fatigue,full-body inflammation, and lots of pain (in ALL of my joints) being the worst of it, in addition to the “cold” that just won’t die.

The most frustrating thing is that over the last two years we’ve done unimaginable amounts of labs, and the only ones that come back abnormal are B12, c-reactive protein, and protein in the urine. Nothing else, even the diabetes ones are normal. We don’t even have elevated blood cell counts, but fungal infections don’t always initiate an immune response The kidney trouble is from the inflammation protein fibrin, not diabetic-associated albumin. So basically we have documentable inflammation, and no-known cause for anything, and I’ve exhausted my resources. I’ve moved onto homeopathic remedies that seem to be helping, but take a looonnnngggggg time. (To be fair, though, prescription anti-fungals can take like a year to work to, sometimes more)

More to the point of what you want to know, I have painfully slow insulin absorption. I’m worse off then you, even. I have to pre-bolus by about two hours. I always attributed it to a side-effect of the inflammation, though, and not the elevated B12 levels I could be wrong about that, or it could be they work together to promote insulin resistance.

Following making the original post and not getting enough information, I went looking for another solution. . I actually built the rollercoaster back into my basal rates that I had in older days back on NPH and Regular insulins. What I did was basically divide my usual pre-bolus for each meal across a 1.5 hour window of my basal (to give me wiggle room in my meal times). The center point of that pre-bolus hump is exactly two hours before my “average” meal time, but because I spread the insulin out, I don’t have to be stringent about when I eat. I still calculate and deliver an exact bolus when I do eat, because I programmed a reverse hump, or un-bolus if you will?, into my basal program following meal times. Basically i have my underlying baseline basal program, the I added the 1.5 hour spread pre-bolus, return to my underlying basal for 30 minutes (meal time) plus a full meal bolus, then I subtract the same amount of insulin I pre-bolused from the baseline basal amounts over the next 1.5 hours. I never heard of anyone doing this before and expected to do lots of tweaking to figure this out, but it worked so well out of the gate that I haven’t tweaked a thing. I’m doing great with this crazy combined pre-bolus/basal line. I don’t have the benefit of a CGM to watch the numbers play out, but I’m so pleased with what my fingersticks look like. I haven’t had a single post-meal out-of-range spike since I started this. The biggest trouble I have had is sometimes trying to cook dinner in early stages of hypo fuzziness if I’m late, but I think that’s a small price to pay.

Sorry for the long post. I’m probably getting notorious for them Kudos if you read it all. :slight_smile:


#7

not sure if this makes any difference, but i’ve been taking my B3 supplement as well and no differences either… doctor said to continue taking it… makes me worried


#8

I think the idea of taking a B complex is different than just taking a full-flush niacin / B3 supplement. B vitamin complexes tend to be heavy on the B-12 and really light on the B-3 because it’s highly unpopular. I’m hesitant to take anything b vitamin anymore, though, since I haven’t had my other levels tested. At the time of posting the original, I was hoping for insites on full-flush (or maybe not?) Niacin taken orally with insulin.

For those who don’t know the difference, B-12 is generally associated with energy metabolism, while B-3 plays a role in dilating blood and lymph vessels. It’s often recommend for detoxification and lowering blood pressure, but it can cause hot flashes (flushing) because enlarged capillaries mean the blood rushes to the skin.


#9

Thank you both for specific B-3 info! Good to know it didn’t help. Did you use full-flush or non-flush?