Im working on a low carb diet and having great success. Thanks TuD and Dr. B. At any rate, Ive started to experience a high from about 8pm to 12am every day. Ive been doing some experimenting to see what the issue is, but Im not having a ton of luck and curious if anyone else has had experiences like this.
Essentially, my BS is 90-120 all day till 8ish rolls around. Then I start a slow rise up
to about 170 and sit till 12-1am. Ive been increasing my basal at that time 6pm-12am as that seems to fall in line with the rise in BS, but so far it hasnt helped. I am bolusing for this high as well, but again it still
takes 3-4 hours to come down.
So,
Im not sure if this is the body somehow beginning digestion of the protein and fats at 8PM or what. Im theorizing that based on the slow conversion of protein into glucose. Ive fluctuated my dinner between just a salad (lettuce) with a large amount of protein and fats to well rounded 20g carb with cauliflower rice and 3oz of protein.
My
diet at this point is about 60g of carbs, 70g of protein, and 100-120g of fat. Any help is greatly appreciated and please, if you dont care for my dietary choice, keep it to yourself, thanks. =^)
How does it go with the 20 carb meals of less protein & fat?
Not that our lives work this way, but ideally eating more protein & fat earlier in the day & less at night works best.
Yep, it’s the protein & fat slowing digestion down, in addition to the conversion of protein to glucose. You can try taking digestive enzymes with dinner (betaine HCL) to see if this helps some.
Afraid it takes a lot of dose tweaking to get the insulin timed well to protein/fat meals. Have you checked out Danny’s TAGger group?
Hey Gerri,
Yeah I am apart of Taggers and do tag myself. I suppose then its the slower metabolism at night or something to that effect. Im just in new waters, so slightly unsure. =^)
Oddly enough, last nights meal wasnt much different than something I would have eaten before and just been able to bolus in a tag method for. ground beef/turkey with lettuce, cheese, guacamole and a small amount of salsa on top of a low carb tortilla. 22g of carbs, 35g protein, and 19g fat. None the less I still hit 170 and that required 5.4 units as opposed to the 2.4 it should have. That is what I think is troubling me. Its taking a lot more insulin than just the cabs to bring me down. insulin for protein… A whole new variable! =^)
Metabolism sure is slower at night. Wish I could eat more at lunch than at dinner, but some days I don’t have time to even eat lunch.
You could try lowering dinner carbs to see what effect this has. There’s a reason behind Dr. B’s formula. With increased fat & protein, it becomes a bit more difficult to control the rise over a certain amount of carbs.
One thing that’s helpful is that 170 seems to be consistent as far as knowing what to expect.
I need more insulin to correct highs at night also. May be part of the evening slowing down effect, or that my BG is rising more than I realize so that the correction isn’t as much of a correction.
Hi Emmy,
The walking would be great, but I dont have much time to unless Im running back and forth in the office. Once home (7ish), Im the kids property!
As for site rotation, dosing times, and resistance, I ruled those out first.
Food logs, check. Its definitely a diet thing, so Im paying close attention and trying to vary meals to see what the issue is. Im just curious if other folks have experienced something like this. It almost seems like the protein is being digested for the day all between 8-12. Thanks for the pointer on carb sensitivity!
“With increased fat & protein, it becomes a bit more difficult to control the rise over a certain amount of carbs.”
Meaning less carbs allows for better metabolism of proteins?
Agreed about the 170 constant. Its odd though, when I do a long bolus (over 3 hours) it still seems to rise around 8-9 and come back down at 12-1am.
I should have a new CGM by wednesday. Ill be able to watch it better then. Im thinking tonight, Ill test every 1/2 hour from 8pm and maybe do a long basal to see if I can catch the begining of the rise.
Less carbs doesn’t effect the rate of protein metabolism. But with digestion slowed from protein/fat, less carbs will have less impact when they do hit. I’d try less protein/fat first to see what happens & then less carbs.
Looks like its a rabbit food dinner then! =^)
No wabbit food:) Maybe just slightly less protein/fat. Like 1 ounce less of protein.
So, I tried no fat last night (pork chops and red cabbage) with the same effect. Slightly less. I only hit 160. Tonight Ill reduce the protein as much as I can (cheese dinner maybe) and see where that leaves me.
I don’t know if you have considered it, but you may have trouble with dinner as a “larger” meal, complicated if you have a touch of gastroparesis. Dr. B talks about the chinese restaurant effect (p. 95) where a larger meal can trigger additional blood sugar release (beyond the glucose from your meal). If you have a bit of gastroparesis, this may also muck with your response causing you to be low and then go high later in the evening. Just a thought. Perhaps another reason to eat less at dinner?
Still a pretty consistent reading. Reduce the protein slightly so you’ll have a better idea of what works.
Thanks bsc. I never noticed this when eating a carb rich diet, granted meals were 170 1hr in and 130 at 2 hrs. but, that seems to point to protein.
I have been keeping the meals pretty consistent in size and not so large at that. Although, I did notice with the mexican pizza I was quite full after the meal. Last nights 2 thin pork chops and 1.25 cup red cabbage left me not overly full.
Thanks for the page reference. I have to reread it as I dont think I quite got the concept. There is a ton of info in that book to keep up with, especially when its an eye opener.
As for the gastroparesis, Im not sure. I thought that gastroparesis was unpredicable?
The rise is predictable both in BG # and timing. Dinner was at 8pm. BG was 101, at 9:15pm 143, 10:30pm 166, 11:30 159, 12:15am 162, 12:47am 112, 2am 114, 7am 97. I could count on it going up at 9ish and coming down at 1am.
Tonight Im going to cut down on protein as much as I can. Maybe veggie salad or something. Ill see if the same thing happens.
Will do, thanks!
One very telling sign of gastroparesis is lows after eating. That’s how mine was diagnosed–sharp lows after eating & then a huge, sharp increase many hours later after insulin was gone. I’ve got a crazed bolus schedule to attempt to outwit it. You’re right. It’s quite unpredictable.
humbug. I had no protein tonight (salad and low carb flat bread) and I was 130 all night. So even with no protein i still am not on target. Ill have to try increasing my basil.
Id like to be able to eat a small amount of protein at night. I suppose the next step is to try less protein at lunch and then have some at dinner. or worse… some exercise! =^O
Well, 130 isn’t 170. 40 pts is a big difference. To get a better picture, you might want to try this experiment again. Hard to tell much from one meal. And/or, experiment by reducing the amount of protein a bit. Ugh, such a pain! Was a good test to see what no protein would yield.
Are you hungry from not eating protein tonight?
Increasing your dose is a good idea since you’re staying at the same number. Your consistency is amazing & really helpful in figuring this out.
Its truly out to lunch! If I didnt know better I would say from 9-1am my budy either doesnt process food well at all or all the protein I eat in a day is metabolized then. Im thinking tomorrow Ill try to have less protein at lunch.
Do you have lows in the afternoon? Not sure why less protein at lunch would effect your after dinner reading.