Ok. Thanks for the discussion Shelly. My autocorrect broke too. 
And in case this fact was lost on you. I have T1D. I have no choice but to purchase insulin either.
So are you playing devilās advocate or actually advocating for unregulated, unrestricted price increases because we die otherwise? A genuine question, not rhetorical. Your posts assume healthcare MUST be a business. It shouldnāt and in almost every developed country except the US and many developing countries, itās not. Itās a public good like the water you mention above, which is highly regulated for that very reason (see your public utility bill). Do you believe we should deregulate water and electricity and nix the laws that currently prohibit price gouging during states of emergency?
As a caveat, I donāt think of āBig Pharmaā as the scientists and workers. I used to work for one of the Big Banks - working for an industry with questionable ethics does not impute those ethics onto the workers.
My post do not presume that healthcare must be a business but only that it is a business. Those other countries you referenced have very different cultures and tax strategies. In many of those countries people pay upwards of 40% of income in taxes. Do you think the citizens of the USA are ready for those sort of tax hike?Without understanding the culture of those countries relative to the USA we canāt simply say, āLook how they do it over there. Why canāt we do that?ā
Do you believe we should deregulate water and electricity and nix the laws that currently prohibit price gouging during states of emergency?
Irrelevant to this discuss and a logical fallacy aka. loaded question.
How much money would the insulin producers make if all of us died?
unrestricted price increases
Thatās how capitalism works. Supply and demand.
i think, they will go, out-of-business, if we all die,.
Hi I am from Australia.
A prescription for Insulin costs about $38 and you receive about 25 bottles of insulin (pen fill bottle). Usually last me about 3 months.
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I just asked a local Fred Meyer pharmacy here in Portland, Oregon for insulin costs.
The cash price, without the special health insurance pricing schedule (which is different for every insurance company) is:
Humalog, 10mL bottle, 100U = $317
Novalog, 10mL bottle, 100U = $310
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$256.00 a vial of novolog in Alaska, pump supplies are $2300.00/ 90 days, and DEXCOM $1300.00/ 90 days. Without the insurance i have, I would be barely winging it with Wal-Mart insulin and MDI.
The thing about our prices is this. Because our government decided drug price negotiations are a no go, we are basically subsidizing those countries that do have price controls. The money for research has to come from somewhere, and right now we are it. Itās great that AU can get it for $38.00, but if the cost of production is $50.00ā¦well, someone has to make up the difference. I have noticed, however, that since that cluster**** of a healthcare law passed, prices have increased exponentially from what they were before. Regulations? Labor costs? Who knows!
Frankly, I think the claim that there are huge R&D expenses is a total crock. The Humalog patent expired May 2013 after being originated in 1996. The R&D was long since recovered many years ago. The only āinnovationā since then was the kwikpen which surely did not affect Humalog in a vial. The price is simply profit taking.
Also, a lot of diabetes R&D happens in other countries.
Iām employed at a hospital where they have a diabetes program that pays for all my diabetic supplies and medications. Theyāre certain requirements you have to meet in order to stay in the program; Have to have health insurance, A1C 7 or below, cholesterol levels have to be in normal range, annual foot exams, annual eye exams, etc. If I were to pay out of pocket without the program my Lantus, Novolog, and test strips would have a $35 co-pay for each.
Without Insurance a Box of Lantus (5 pens) $449.00
Box of Novolog (5 pens) $448.00
100 Contour Bayer Test Strips $84.99
But Novolog isnāt Humalog and the patent is on the process for production via biogentics which required R&D so ā¦ not an apples to apples comparison.
My comment was that the investment in Humalog is all paid for, continued production and sales of Humalog is all icing on the cake at high profit. Novolog is different, it still has patent protection. So yes, they are different, but I see no basis to argue that huge increases in the price of Humalog are warranted. In fact you could argue that Humalog could drop or hold itās price and still maintain huge margins while winning market share away from Novolog.
In a functioning market, yes. In one where the manufactuerers corner the market and then collude to raise their prices together, no.
All of these companies are publicly traded. Have you analysed the R&D spend on the SEC and investor reports from these companies to see how much they spend on R&D?
Novoās statement:
Income Statement
Revenue (TTM) 16.06B
EPS Diluted (TTM) 2.014
Net Income (TTM) 5.194B
Profitability
Gross Profit Margin (Quarterly) 84.04%
Profit Margin (Quarterly) 28.60%
Novoās profit margin is 84% which seems to bolster your argument. But ā¦ one make a statement about how much a company is allowed to make anymore than one can argue about how much income a particular person should make.
Then we look at Novoās balance sheet.
Balance Sheet
Cash and Short Term Investments (Quarterly) 2.998B
Total Assets (Quarterly) 13.45B
Total Liabilities (Quarterly) 6.567B
Shareholders Equity (Quarterly) 6.880B
I certainly hope they have enough cash to pay for future R&D (right now they spend ~ $1.5 billion yearly on R&D), pay off debt and return some profits to shareholders.
Hereās data for Lilly.
| In Millions of USD (except for per share items) | 3 months ending 2015-12-31 | 3 months ending 2015-09-30 | 3 months ending 2015-06-30 | 3 months ending 2015-03-31 | 3 months ending 2014-12-31 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Gross Profit | 3,986.40 | 3,722.80 | 3,760.30 | 3,452.00 | 3,868.20 |
| Research & Development | 1,444.20 | 1,143.40 | 1,169.50 | 1,039.30 | 1,185.70 |
Iāve read so many times here that insulin is so expensive. In France, I donāt pay anything the national health insurance takes on 100%. I know Iām lucky even though when we work a lot of our money goes to health care. Back to the subject, I just asked at my pharmacy how much 5 Humalog kwikpens costs. A pack of 5 costs 40 euros = $45. Far from what you all are paying!! Very interesting!