Interesting read on the ketogenic diet


#21

Well, just specifically that you asserted that it isn’t true that ketosis can lead to ketoacidosis, whereas there is substantial amount of information that it is possible. Beyond that, I didn’t delve into any other details regarding ketosis and Dr. Greenfields possible comments (as you said, who knows if he was accurately quoted).

FYI, my wife has been in ketosis on purpose many many times. HOWEVER, she still has some endogenous insulin. I don’t have any and don’t ever do the ketogenic thing. I can lose weight simply by portion and fat control, combined with my usual activity. I don’t need to resort to any special diet to accomplish weight loss. As I’ve stated long ago on the forum, I lost weight by eating mostly fruits, veggies, meat, fish, and chicken and staying away from white foods. No ketosis whatsoever was involved.


#22

I think I wasn’t clear. I believe that all cases of DKA start out with ketosis but rare that it progresses to DKA.


#23

[quote=“Terry4, post:15, topic:75793”]

That is part of what you quoted and you then went on to say,“This is nonsense…”

And that is what I disagree with you about. :slight_smile: (and I provided just one link to a webpage discussing the matter).


#24

Dave - Here’s a shot of my ketones after 69hrs of a 72hr extended fast. They had been at 5.0 at 6am in the morning (monitored closely during extended fasts).

Those of us who’ve actually changed to long term keto lifestyle will all recognize this ketone level as being higher than normal ketosis, but certainly not unusual or dangerous given the fact that I was in an extended fast, and had just finished an hour on the treadmill (burning body fat for fuel, which creates ketones).

I’m not criticizing the doctor, only strongly disagreeing with the statement attributed to him.

You’re fortunate that you can lose weight by eating fruits, veggies, meat, fish while avoiding refined grains. Many of us have tried that route and it no longer works with our metabolism.

Running higher ketones is not only “ok” but is recommended treatment for certain conditions. Referred to as therapeutic ketosis, cancer and epilepsy are among the disorders treated this way.


#25

#26

I’ve read that MOST of the brain can run well on ketones, but there is a small section that cannot. However, the liver can convert proteins into glucose more than fast enough to supply this small section.


#27

I don’t think much of the study that you linked to. When studies rely on self-reported food logs, the data gets compromised in a hurry.

More research that backs up Seidelmann’s was presented in August at the European Society of Cardiology Congress.

Researchers who presented at that conference studied the self-reported eating patterns of nearly 25,000 people in the US and compared their results with studies involving more than 447,500 people.

Can you remember what you had for dinner on Tuesday of last week? Is it possible that these study participants might be influenced by what the study organizers expect? I don’t respect any food study that relies on self-reported food diaries.

I’d make an exception to this statement, however. For food studies that use a low carb approach, researchers can confirm that participants followed a low carb diet by measuring the ketones in their blood.


#28

That’s precisely what happens Robert.

In fact, when doing extended fasts (72+hrs) and virtually all the “dietary glycogen” stores are long depleted, the body produces the required glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis.

I run far lower BG numbers than I thought possible simply because the brain can more effectively function on ketones than glucose. That isn’t to say that there is a BG level that is problematic for those of us in Ketosis, however it’s likely a full 30-40mg/dL (1.7-2.2mmol/l) lower than I ever thought possible a year ago.

5 years ago I’d be in a near convulsive state when I fell below the 40mg/dl, but now I’m still cognizant at < 30.


#29

To me, stories about ketogenic diets are very old news. It is and was the Atkins Diet. Not quite certain why the new name change.


#30

that’s OK. I don’t endorse the links that I provide. There are just links that anyone who is interested here, can peruse if they are so inclined.


#31

Where do you get you menu ideas from. I am so nervous about trying since I have read more negative about it. I’m only needing to lose about 15 lbs really need to get my sugars in range and stable. You come up with your plan from books or the internet


#32

Kathy - here is a cookbook for you. Its a little old school but the more I look at it the more I realize we have lost a lot of knowledge over the years. https://archive.org/stream/diabeticcookeryr00oppeiala#page/34/mode/2up


#33

Kathy - a year ago I too was a sceptic. What diabetic wouldn’t be. We’ve been brainwashed into thinking keto / ketosis mist be the same as diabetic ketoacidosis - right?

Wrong - nothing further from the truth:

Take the next week to use the internet (and your smartphone) to search YouTube for Keto diets and meals, as well as download a food tracking app (UnderArmour’s MyFitnessPal is free) so you can track what % of fats and proteins you’re eating day to day (important).

Also search all the foods / food groups that are off limits (aside from all refined grains and sugars, starches, and most fruits + many vegetables), clear your house of any manufactured fats like margarine and vegetable oils (replace with butter, olive oils, coconut oil and avocado oil for cooking and dressings).

Breakfast should now be bacon and eggs (period). Meats are great (not processed lunch meats), limited amounts of cheese (you want to limit your protein to 15% for first week until you’re completely in ketosis, and the more fat you eat the better).

Green salads with limited tomatoes and plenty of celery, broccoli, asparagus. Also zucchini, spinach, cauliflower, avocados (all can be cooked and covered with melted cheese).

Just keep the protein below 15-20%. At any point if you stop losing weight, cut the protein macro (percentage) and increase fat %). I’m back to 85-90% fat after 6 months as after 4 months I stopped losing and tried 30-35% protein. Didn’t work and I put weight on. Reverse course back to more fat and have lost another 20 lbs since Dec 22nd.

You’ll need to consume a lot of salt (that’s right salt, even if you have high BP like I did). Your electrolytes become severely depleted as for every 100 grams of fat you lose you ultimately lose 400 grams of associated water (fat is 1 part triglyceride to about 4 parts water). I suggest after the 2nd or 3rd day as you don’t feel well (part of transitioning into ketosis) you take an additional teaspoon to pink sea salt per day (more as necessary).

If this sounds ludicrous believe me that’s what I thought too. I was on a low salt diet, 4 BP meds, and had serious edema 6 months ago. Now I’m on no BP meds, haven’t had edema in 5 months and feel a whole lot better (while consuming as much salt as I need as I don’t retain water).

If you have questions please feel to ask (on forum or privately if you prefer)
Jim


#34

Thank you. I will for sure start going thru the internet. Need to do lots of reading


#35

Thank you I will go thru it. I like old school


#36

Awesome progress! You will also find that you will be able to reduce your blood sugar targets in time. I love low carb. My target blood sugar is mid 80s. I typically can stay between 70 and 120 nearly all the time, and mostly < 100. Keto/low carb makes diabetes so much easier… and I also want to steal the quote from Dr_B that “Nothing tastes as good as a perfect blood sugar feels”.


#37

check out www.alldayidreamaboutfood.com

The are some great keto / low carb recipe books around these days.
I am a lazy cook and usually don’t bother with recipes. I just stick with meats, eggs, and low carb vegetables mostly. I do make almond flour pancakes and occasional baked good for my children.


#38

I’ve found the same thing, my target BG is 4.3-4.6 mmol/L (77-83 mg/dl)

This simply wasn’t possible eating carbs

5.0 mmol/dl is the equivalent of the American 90 (multiply mmol/L x 18 to convert to mg/dl)


#39

Great line! When I see glucose traces like this, I can easily imagine what this metabolic sanity feels like – more energy, a wide-awake brain function, a sense of calm, and an eagerness to take on whatever life decides to bring. Taming blood glucose variability enables this whole scenario.


#40

Interesting point @Dave47. Ketogenic diets are the rage right now and if it helps improve A1C then I love that! I do have concerns about too much protein involved in this and Paleo which I follow myself. Excessive protein can certainly be hard on the kidney’s.