Since the study is still ongoing, Faustman’s article does not go into details on this matter, but it seems logical to suppose that the lower the existing c-peptide levels the less significant the results achieved would be. Faustman took enormous pains some time ago to develop an ultra-sensitive measuring device for c-peptide, which is produced in corresponding quantities to insulin, so that the c-peptide level indicates the amount of insulin the patient is producing, rather than the amount injected.
Actually, there are two separate results.
I think that even if you had ZERO insulin production, you could still potentially see a benefit from the systemic shift in glucose metabolism from oxidative phosphorylation to aerobic glycolysis.
I would imagine that this theory would potentially be IDEAL for someone that is initially diagnosed and still strong into their honeymoon stage.
It says that there are no affects of the BCG vaccinations on people that are not already diabetic. So, it would not prevent’ diabeties.
It reads like it only works once our bodies have developed a full autoimmune response.
My real question, what would be any harmful side affects of getting two BCG vaccines 4 weeks apart?
I imagine that the second shot being so soon after the first one would potentially increase any side affects. But most of these are fairly innocuous.
By a strange coincidence I happened to be sitting next to an MIT research biologist at a favorite bar in Cambridge this evening, who is doing work in related areas, and got to talking about Faustman’s research. It was on her mind too, because there was a Boston Globe article on it today, as well as the ones we’ve been reacting to here. I vented about the coverage and the hype and how painful it is to those of us who have been hearing “Cure in five years!!!” since (in my case) the 1980s or longer.
She was pretty skeptical about Faustman’s approach. One of the things we got into, which was new to me, is the fact that it’s not the case that all the insulin producing cells in a T1’s pancreas are dead. Lots of them are, but what’s interesting is that lots of them aren’t; they’re simply dormant for some reason. Perfectly capable of producing insulin but just not doing it. Not getting the right signals. Her own area was about protein signaling and looking at the whole system as an information network to try to figure out what should be triggering the correct response at the molecular level and what’s causing it to fail. Thought that was an interesting approach. Anyway, FWIW…
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Dr. Faustmans lab uses a different measurement than any other lab results will reproduce. I got my C-Peptide measured by them and it was 3 pmol/l which is very low but the standard test just said less than 0.01. The phase 2 study is using people with 5 pmol/l or more but they told me that they are doing more studies on those who do not fit the current study’s criteria as funding allows.
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Interesting. I’ve read other studies that use ultra-sensitive tests, such as the one that showed that around 67% of people with T1D for over 50 years still produce some insulin. I’m fairly sure it used a test that was significantly more sensitive than standard tests. So does Dr. Faustman have one that’s even more sensitive than that? It would be good if that were the case. (I’ve never had my c-peptide level tested, but I’m always curious about this topic.)
I’m not positive but I think her lab is the one that developed the ultra-sensitive test that a few others are now using. I think that if the lab can get down to pmol/l then their test is just as good as Faustmans.
Personally if I could get a Dr. to just give me the TB shots then I’d do it tomorrow. It may not “cure” me but I think it would improve my quality of life and time in range.
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Yes, I’d be very interested in this as well, even though I don’t know my c-peptide or if it would have the “full effect”. Anything that can increase time in range and decrease effort is a good thing! (I tried one of the SGLT2 inhibitors and that was great, except it caused unwanted side effects; hopefully this treatment won’t have many side effects.)
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I’m interested too, we should all do it and see what happens!
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BCG is not harmless: some of its side-effects include:
“Commonly reported side effects of bcg include: urinary tract infection, detrusor hyperreflexia of bladder, fever, hematuria, urinary frequency, urinary urgency, vomiting, chills, and malaise. Other side effects include: arthralgia.”
A general caution to keep in mind when considering Faustman’s study is that all other immunological interventions to revive pancreatic beta cells so far have just produced trace increases in function. Since tackling a meal requires a significant spike in insulin output, eating normally would probably never be possible by these methods. She herself describes her results as ‘small and transient,’ so I don’t think there is much here to see.
The really surprising thing, according to one article, is that the treatment was causing white blood cells to produce the insulin, rather than pancreatic cells. Weird.
Did you read her most recent article or are you referring to a past one, because her newest article published a few days ago followed the BCG recipients for 5 to 8 years and the results are pretty incredible 3 years after vaccination. In fact Faustman goes so far as to propose rethinking BCG vaccination in all countries that do not normally give BCG as long as it’s the correct kind of BCG because the TICE strain is pretty much useless for this purpose according to their research.
My question is this then, if it is nothing of a significant nature then why was it reported on ABCNEWS, CBSNews, various online publications and so forth? They made it appear as if this was the turning point for those of us who are affected by this disease and getting two BCG injection should be the remedy.
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Very interesting. I’m wondering if I already have the vaccine inside me and that is why I don’t test positive for Anti-bodies, but am still a diabetic? I remember being tested and vaccinated for TB at some point when I was younger. Maybe that is why the doctor is unsure where to classify me as he was 90% sure I was a Type 1 or Lada only to be confused by the results of my blood test. I’m going to check my shot record and see.
Possibly just misquoting their interview source, or misunderstanding it.
In this study, basic science analysis revealed hungry white blood cells could be behind the decline in blood sugar. In participants who’d taken the BCG vaccine, white blood cells seemed to be guzzling up excess sugar. “BCG is an organism that wants to live inside white blood cells, and it wants to have a lot of energy sources,” Faustman said. “It takes those white blood cells and elevates the sugar utilization.”
Quoted from this 
link:
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Here is the actual article the news reports you might have heard/read are (sort of) based on: Long-term reduction in hyperglycemia in advanced type 1 diabetes: the value of induced aerobic glycolysis with BCG vaccinations | npj Vaccines.
I say “sort of” because the reality is that a lot of media outlets are simply low-quality and even some of the better ones rarely have really medically informed reporters who can digest and translate the type of article referenced above for the layperson. What’s worse, they are mostly driven by the profit motive which sets them up to be speculative or outright sensationalist and that’s how you end up with reports throwing around words like “cure.” (This is all to answer another question you had below.)
I am not a medical scientist, but am someone who knows how the accumulation of knowledge works. It is slow and halting and no single trial, let alone an article based on one, can bring about such a drastic change.
It’s worth emphasizing again that Faustman herself is making no great claims for her results, which I assume are the most recent, since they were published in January, 2018. She says, right in her introductory summary, that the treatment “allowed for a transient and small restoration of insulin production”:
“In the past decade, interest in the century‐old tuberculosis vaccine, bacillus Calmette‐Guerin (BCG), has been revived for potential new therapeutic uses in type 1 diabetes and other forms of autoimmunity. Diverse clinical trials are now proving the value of BCG in prevention and treatment of type 1 diabetes, in the treatment of new onset multiple sclerosis and other immune conditions. BCG contains the avirulent tuberculosis strain Mycobacterium bovis, a vaccine originally developed for tuberculosis prevention. BCG induces a host response that is driven in part by tumour necrosis factor (TNF). Induction of TNF through BCG vaccination or through selective agonism of TNF receptor 2 (TNFR2) has 2 desired cellular immune effects: (1) selective death of autoreactive T cells and (2) expansion of beneficial regulatory T cells (Tregs). In human clinical trials in both type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis, administration of the BCG vaccine to diseased adults has shown great promise. In a Phase I trial in advanced type 1 diabetes (mean duration of diabetes 15 years), 2 BCG vaccinations spaced 4 weeks apart selectively eliminated autoreactive T cells, induced beneficial Tregs, and allowed for a transient and small restoration of insulin production. The advancing global clinical trials using BCG combined with mechanistic data on BCGs induction of Tregs suggest value in this generic agent and possible immune reversal of the type 1 diabetic autoimmune process.”
(TNS = tumor necrosis factor)
It is important to keep in mind that diabetes has often been cured, though only in the popular press.
Continuing the discussion from It appears to be confirmed cure for Type 1:
I had the bcg vaccine in 2003 it did stop me from getting tb but did nothing for my diabetes…there is research that drinking camel milk helps diabetes since camels milk had insulin in it…
Seriously? This is what you got from the many articles published about this? Not to be adversarial, but if you are sincerely interested in finding out more, check out faustmanlab.org.
Not only has Dr. Faustman’s work been repeatedly referred to as “practical cure” research for T1, BCG appears to be successful reversing even long-term diabetes.
Hopefully when you guys have a chance to read about the research from the lab itself, you’ll agree it’s every bit as promising as organ and cell transplantion and all the new insulins, pumps, and sensors. Certainly it’s exciting. I’ve had this ■■■■ disease for 36 years, so I’m not naively excited by news anymore.
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Read this article @Seydlitz.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-018-0062-8
This is the one we are all going crazy about, not the one from January this one is from this MONTH it is extremely exciting please scroll down to the graph which shows the dramatic reduction in A1C after 3 years with no reported severe hypoglycemia. For you who has a very low A1C already this may not be as big a deal to you as it is to me but you will probably agree that not having any severe lows would be a game changer.
I just wish the negative nay sayers would at least delve into the specifics of this discovery and give it the credence it deserves.
If the result of the vaccine taken twice after a month period show results from subjects who it has been administered to and being concurrent with almost normal A1C for 5 years and going, why or who are we to refute it when we have not even done the research or been a subject of it?