Low Carb vs Not Low Carb - let's stop the vitriol

i think you hit the nail in the head when you wrote that it is down to dosing and WATCHING THE CGM. i cannot get a cgm and though i dont eat low carb, i eat about 100, i dont think i could eat high carb and have a1cs in the 5s. so maybe its you can eat high carb and have good control IF you have all the technology.

Is there a technologygap that can open up? There are many T1, including many luminaries of the DOC, who decline shots or CGMs or both and seem to do pretty well, live active and complex lives without crap plugged into their abdomens. I have found it easier and am doing ok so I can afford it (or am a kept man, since my wife is doing really ok…) but I wonder how transferrable the tactics are to shots/ meters? During my brief period of knowing what was going on and learning about carb counting, bolusing and all that when I got the pump, I also had the good fortune/ tactical savvy to secure coverage for 14x/ day test strips so if I wanted to do another test 15-30 minutes later, I could do so.

Many folks don’t have that sort of support from health insurers and supply providers and even some medical providers who have been reported to have deemed testing at that level to be “obsessive” and thus “crazy” and are thus handicapped, not by our disease but by the medical industry. I think that’s where we should be aiming our vitriol!

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Maybe the reason many PWD feel so strongly about low-carbing, is how much it has helped them. After spending years with highly fluctuating blood sugars, and many hypos, and all that goes with it, this lifestyle makes many people feel great all the time. I personally go nuts when I hear friends with Type2 who have been told by doctors only to avoid candy… Then they start telling me about how their hands are feeling a little numb, etc. etc. Yes, I guess you can say I’m very vocal about it, and some might say fanatic.

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Well I guess I am the source of some of the vitriol :pensive:

I am very careful to describe my low carb approach as an option to other T2’s, they can take it or leave it. It has certainly been successful for me and I certainly don’t try to hide that fact. If they think it is something they might like to try I offer help.

However when the topic of the advice given to T2’s comes up my attitude changes. I have several friends and acquaintances who have been diagnosed with prediabetes. They tell me they are eating healthy by avoiding sweets and saturated fat and by eating whole grains etc. Testing once in a great while, if at all, is deemed sufficient. Their doc tells them they’re doing great. My advice that starch is just as dangerous as sweets, to a T2, goes in one ear and out the other, after all I’m not an expert, I’m just a crazy old coot following a strange diet.

Of course T2 is not fat intolerance, it’s carb intolerance, and so inevitably their condition worsens and their doc informs them that they now have full blown T2.

The look of betrayal on their faces breaks my heart and is a major source of vitriol. In many cases this result is completely avoidable.

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I still don’t even know exactly what “Low Carb” is! So for me it’s just a meaningless term that has no rule and something for folks to a) brag about, b) advise everyone to follow (sometimes unwisely), c) argue over, and d) keep the DOC alive! I really don’t care how many carbs everyone eats and what constitutes their selections. I just know what I need and can handle. I wish everyone else would just enjoy their carbs whatever the number may be!

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I agree that is so wrong imo. I have seen people from both sides go to extremes here in some discussions and that is what we want to avoid. Even this discussion using these words disturbs me(vitriol and libel). As well as Denise’s comment that people who eat higher carbs fit into the mainstream and therefore won’t be ostracized from society? That seems a bit extreme to me, people who eat lower carb or very low carb have no need to be ostracized imo :smile:

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[I’ve been approached by various members and friends of the organization recently saying that TuDiabetes has a “low carb slant” to it. “Hogwash,” I’ve said. But am I right?]

No Melisa it is slanted …this DOC and all other DOC’s are slanted in the direction of the small core group of individual’s that run the show. Names of these individuals can easily be identified…it’s just how a web forum works. I participate on three different forums and all three tend to be driven in a certain direction buy a handful of individuals and the topics they like. These are always the most popular topics but I find that tudiabetes.org rates high on the friendly scale compared to some of the other DOC’s. There was a time if you tried to talk about any pump or CGM besides a Medtronic on the Insulinpumprforum.org you pretty much got flamed but now two of the core members have switched to a Dexcom and a different pump so the core is now more diverse and the popular posts are now leaning toward Dexcom, two years ago if you posted a topic about a Dex it just died. I also participate on a Hearing Aid forum and it is also slanted toward particular products because these products are used by the core group…have you ever heard the expression “Like it or Lump it”…:wink: Forums can be that way…it would be nice if they where not but they just are. There is risk in introducing a new topic or idea on a forum, there are members on this forum that will go to the ends of the earth to punish you if you make a mistake, accidently misrepresent something or stand your ground…:wink:
JMHO

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Look, we are diverse in how each of our bodies metabolize food and in our personal style and preferences. My strong personal preference for managing my blood glucose with a low carb way of eating should not be considered a personal attack on the preferences and style of any other person. I fear that enthusiasm that I and others display towards our way of eating is taken as a criticism of anyone that does not choose to join.

There are participants here that enjoy a more robust production of endogenous (home-made, natural) insulin than I do. They may be able to easily eat more carbs that I do and still maintain good blood sugar control. I applaud that! We all weren’t dealt the same hand in life. If I could eat 50 or 100 carbs per meal and maintain good post-meal BGs, I may choose to do that. I can’t, so I don’t! I do think there are other health concerns to be considered, however, when it comes to eating a large percentage of daily calories as carbs, especially processed ones.

I do disagree with the point that people with diabetes can successfully and consistently dose for high carb meals by just getting the carb count correct. I call this casino dosing because I’ve tried it for years, crashed, burned, and have the scars to show for it. Large doses of insulin do not absorb consistently from dose to dose. Large amounts of carbohydrates do not absorb the same from meal to meal. Some people may be able to do this but I think they are the exception to the rule.

I know I hold strong opinions and that carries with it a certain amount of aversion that others may feel about my opinions. I remind myself that I participate here to help myself as well as others. I apologize if I offend; that is certainly not my intention.

As to displaying an unfriendly manner to any of our expert guests, I make special efforts to treat our guests politely. I did not conceal my opinion when discussing the topic. I did, however, refrain from any personal attacks.

I think that conflict can be productive. It should not be avoided at any cost just to maintain some level of calm. Conflicting points of view can help to refine where one stands on an issue. I know some people are just conflict adverse. I don’t avoid it, but I try to be polite.

I’ve rambled enough. :wink:

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@JohnG, your message is it in a nutshell. Thanks for your articulation.

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Maybe others see it differently, but for me the purpose of participating in a forum like TuDiabetes is to learn from the experience of others. I am more than happy to hear advice from anyone who has diabetes. There are lots of really smart people here, who have gone through a lot. I WANT people to express - as strongly as they feel it - their views on what works and what doesn’t. I can take what makes sense to me, and ignore what doesn’t. I would say to Melissa_Lee and others’ that they should consider why there are so many people who feel SO STRONGLY that LC has helped them control their disease.It’s not a value judgment, but really caring and trying to help others from the good experience they have had. But again, it’s your choice to ‘take it or leave it’, and - as importantly - to feel free to express just as strongly what works for you, and why.

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I don’t know how I’d feel if I was just joining TuD today. I do agree with @JohnG that perhaps the low-carb folks are more vocal and active. But even among most of those, there seems to be an agreement that “Your Diabetes May Vary.” I lurk at other sites, but this is the only place where I personally feel comfortable. Where differing viewpoints are respected. It’s that respect that is so important.

I have both medical and personal reasons for choosing moderate-carb, low-fat, vegetarian. It works for me. But I truly marvel at how well others do on a completely different plan and enjoy their insights. People have strong opinions based on their personal experiences and I hope that newbies (or those of us who have been here for a while) don’t find those opinions pushy. Maybe those of us in the “silent majority” you mentioned should speak up more often and be heard. But in the meantime, I read posts through a filter of knowing that the posts, no matter how strongly worded, are generally written by people who want to help.

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I make a point of trying to present the higher carb alternative in almost every low carb discussion singing praises of fresh fruit and whole grain bread both of which I eat every day. I don’t get much push back or response but I hope that I can be an example to at least one T1 who might want to eat to her own meter rather than eating to Dr. Bernstein’s. It’s not that getting 30% of daily calories from carbohydrates works for everyone. But it works for some people and if it works is a healthy and pleasant way to eat.

Maurie

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I believe the word vitriol is a little bit strong for what I see here on TuD. I do see a lot of people offering what appears to be good friendly advice about controlling blood glucose. The spirit of help is there even if the message sounds like a broken record.

As a charter member of carboholic’s anonymous I find that controlling my carbs is extremely helpful but I do not actually do low carb, I would describe my carb intake as moderately reduced.

I may take a little bit different approach when offered advice, First I question why and if the answer makes sense I will weigh if I think it will benefit me. I guess that’s why I do not see TuD’s low carb slant as vitriolic. I see it as an option and one of my many choices, I am capable of making the right decision for me no mater how strong the drum beat is.

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I like to have as many options to choose from as possible, so will consider it all, high carb, low carb, moderate carb. Basically it boils down to which method helps control my blood sugars best. I see no vitriol, perhaps just a bad word choice?

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I, too, often reference good friends here who do great on more carbs, Maurie. My favorite is our own Nel Peach, T1, who has lived a full life free of complications for decades, and still runs marathons. She also carried the Olympic Torch for a segment on behalf the Canadian Diabetes Association—a factoid I always find inspiring…I’m sorry, but I just don’t get the “vitriol” part of it. I remember a few who got carried away several years ago, but they left when folks stopped feeding the flames of their love of argument for argument’s sake.

Denise9, how do you correct if on MDI? It may be my misimpression that it is easier to correct if using a pump than on MDI.

I feel the same way, denise

Dunno about Denise, but I was on MDI for a long time before changing to a pump and I don’t find them significantly different when it comes to bolusing for corrections or meals. The increments aren’t as fine with a syringe or injector pen, but that’s about it. The real difference is control over basal rates, which you obviously don’t have much of with a single shot (or two) of Lantus per day.

I have not felt pressure on this site to go low carb. I have tried Dr. B’s low carb and never could sustain it, so It wasn’t for me. In the end, we have to do what works for us as individuals.

I just take another shot. If i’m at a number that’s “in between” (say my target goal is 100, 1 unit lowers me 50 points, and I’m at 225) I’ll round up my correction to the next number (3) and then eat 5 carbs or so to balance the overcorrection.

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