No Breakfast with Dawn Phenomenon

Breakfast and Dawn Phenomenon
My Question is if you have high blood sugar in the morning or are giving a lot on Insulin in the morning for the Dawn Phenomenon then do you really need a good breakfast?
You have plenty of sugar in your blood why add to it.
For non diabetics it’s the most important meal of the day.
I currently eat very little in the morning but give over a unit per hour from 7 to 10Am.
I am a type 1 on a pump.

Isn't one of the chief characteristics of DP that your blood sugar goes up until you eat? So if that is the case I think it might be making it worse to skip breakfast. I don't have DP so others will correct me if I've misunderstood this.

"Plenty of sugar in your blood so why add to it" doesn't take into account nutritional needs. Why not just eat a breakfast that is as close to zero carbs as possible?

Somewhat tangential to the DP thing, but yeah, I think breakfast is important, no matter what your BG is. If I wake up high or seem to be experiencing some kind of DP, I'll usually eat like a hard-boiled egg and some cheese or something - no carbs, and it usually does the trick.

I'm pretty sure my blood glucose continues to rise until I have breakfast. The sooner I have breakfast after I wake, the better for my glucose control. DP for me also is dependent on when I wake; it doesn't occur at a particular hour.

I have begun to have severe (for me) DP. And I hate breakfast--one of my most favorite things the pump does is to skip meals. AND breakfast is my choice..

I start my DP prevention at 5 am and it lasts until noon. .6 at 5 am, then .8 from 7 to noon. When you take less than 13 units basal and bolus per day, that is pretty big.

I have been told that if I do not take insulin in the morning (with breakfast) my DP will be worse, but I do not find that to be the case. If my glucose reading is high in the am, I take a correction and move forward.

I do tend to get hungry a bit at 11 am, but I have not eaten in 17 hours. If hungry. I eat a protein like a piece of beef jerky.

Kent, you sound similar to me. I find I can maintain better BG control without eating breakfast. I have the highest insulin resistance in the morning add in DP and how 10 carbs makes me spike ridiculously. I bet I would require 2 different basal patterns for a few hours if I ate breakfast.

Any dietician I have ever mentioned to that I do not like to eat breakfast is taken aback. They say things like I need it to start my day and give my brain energy, blah, blah, blah... I think there is a bit of truth here. Dieticians do not have the best understanding of using insulin or DP, in my opinion. And I think you get a short and limited amount of energy from correcting a high and having your body be able to use your excess BG. Your body is working hard to get rid of the excess glucose by respiration and urination. If I wake up and my BG is above my targets, then I will certainly not eat before my BG is within range.

I have made the decision that not eating breakfast to maintain better BG control is a better decision for me. I think you need to way the benefits of eating or not eating breakfast and choose what you think is the best decsion.

I do snack on Almonds when i get to work 6:30.
And will eat a low carb protein bar around 9:30.
But carbs just make me spike my sugar then i just keep bolusing to bring it down.

Based on this discussion, I tried food this morning! My blood glucose reading was 63. I ate 1/4 cup of cottage cheese (7 carbs) which I bolused for at 7:30. I went up to 163 by 10 am and had to correct.

I really do not understand DP at all. After research, I find I have all the symptoms, but the solutions don't work for. What is new in my life as a diabetic?

I also have DP and I have found the best way (for me) to have better readings in the morning is to start my increased basal rate from 1:00am until 8:00am. I also my I:C ratio different for breakfast. That being said, I tend to eat low carb at breakfast which helps. A case of YDMV!

Yeah, if I wake up high and don't eat I will be high all day long. That is why I do a bolus and then eat very low (or no) carb.

if one wakes up high and doesn't take insulin, of course they'll continue to be high. so, doesn't that mean your basal is not right then, that's what a correct basal rate is, allowing us to not eat (fast) and not go too high or low. that's how we test basal, fasting and make changes from that.

Absolutely you need to eat a good breakfast! And that comes directly from the mouth of my endo. He says that with either situation I am to take my correction bolus, wait at least 30 mins and then eat a normal breakfast, bolusing for the carbs in the meal. If I don't eat, then I don't have the energy and nutrition I need to make it through to my next snack or lunch without my body being stressed by even minor fatigue. So, don't figure because you are not a "non diabetic" that your body does not REQUIRE the same amount of nutrition to work properly.

The issue with dawn phen has to do with insulin levels during the night and as well how well the liver signals on the insulin. For many folks adjusting basil insulin is a excellent stratagy. for me, metformin worked better due to my liver signalling poorly.

I would not skip breakfast -it is tempting but puts you on path to wild swings.
Not talked about much from my perspective is that a good strategy is to go low glycemic for breakfast and drop carbs low. Until I got my liver corraled, my breakfast BG was reliably 238 & 110 at midnight). I found it most helpful during these times to cut carbs low, eat proteins, meat, eggs and skip the dam grains and breads ( my target was 300 calories for breakfast and still is). Watch out for canned cream and plastic cow claining to be sans sugars - they forgot to include the corn syrup solids thrown in.

Dawn phen is a nasty liver issue badly addressed by the diabetic industry and its insulin solves all ( yes on type 1 probably does; type 2 - nonsense.)

Good luck and best wishes. Btw, single large doses of met did not work on my body but smaller doses - 500 to 700 mg - one at 10:00pm and one at 12:00am reliably shut off liver nonsense to 6:30 am.single large dose useless.

I find ketones are more of an issue with my DP if I don't eat anything when I get up. I then feel ill for longer than I do if I don't eat at all and DP just ruins my whole day then. Even if I don't want to add more carbs to my system, I would have a 0CP breakfast to get my system going at least. Omelettes or tuna salads get my body going and give it the requirements it needs for the day without adding more carbs for my body to juggle.

But at the end of the day my dawn phenomenon is the reason I'm on medical suspension frm uni and my life is on hold. It has taken enough and I will be dammed if it takes my breakfast too, but that is just me :P