Other state please advise on DMV questions

Type 1 and LADA
1

They appear to have attempted to fix some important hang ups/bugs with the computer system that were driving me nuts. But, now there is this thing…

Because of the changes to State law that called out diabetics specifically, the DMV removed the,

“Do you take insulin?” Yes/NO

question from the license application/renewal form.

It has been replaced with the broader, more common question,

“Do you have a medical condition that could result in loss of consciousness behind the wheel?” YES/NO

If you select “YES,” then you need to get a medical evaluation and form signed by your Doc permitting you to drive. If you select “NO,” then nothing happens.

The DMV people say that every 100-lb teenage girl who has ever passed out in the heat is selecting the “YES” checkbox, leading to many more people being on the hook for providing them with the resulting medical evaluation and medical form. But, the open-ended nature of the question leaves some slack for diabetics. I’m not sure if this whole effort was a giant fail.

The State sets a rabbit snare that YOU are responsible for walking into. That takes the responsibility off them for singling out any particular person or group for different treatment by Dept of Motor Vehicles or Dept of Public Safety. Unfortunately, because there is not a lot of communal knowledge about this checkbox (it just appeared), people are walking into that snare left and right.

My current position is this:

1.) It is not illegal to lie (my professor who is a police officer told me this because they lie to suspects all the time). However, if you lied on the “Do you take insulin?” question, and they found out about it, they would suspend your license automatically for 6 months, I think. The only people I know personally who used to lie on that question were foreign students who were here for a limited time and didn’t want to get sucked into dealing with the US medical system.

2.) The State can politely inquire about your medical conditions, but you are under no obligation to provide that info. Providing that info provides you with NO benefit, and might cause lasting, un-remediable harm, like regular drivers license suspensions.

Can I get some opinions/feedback from those of you who have experience with this DMV question?

Please help keep mohe out of trouble. You all might be able to save me from my own lack of experience with this particular business process. If possible, I would like to learn about it by some other means than years of resulting tragedy. Trouble - YouTube

2

I would think it would be on a government form (like your taxes).

I am glad my state does not ask this question, but I would answer honestly and go through the hassle.

3

“It is not illegal to lie” for cops to lie to you while questioning you about a crime or potential crime.

If u lie to them that is making a false representation to police a crime

Stay on the safe side, I do not believe there is wiggle room with that question.

Also, if you get into accident and someone informs the lawyer that u did not disclose that u have diabetes to DMV they will sue more aggressively and the insurance company may not cover you as your license was gotten on “fraudelent means”. Be safe

4

@mohe0001
There are so many drivers out there without diabetes who should not be driving… extremely old, mentally disabled, visually impaired, those with children and dogs in the car that provide distractions, people impaired by alcohol or drugs, those who rage at others on the road, etc. The list is long.

I would respond NO to the question and then adhere to a very strict list of personal conditions regarding driving… check my BG before driving and periodically during long drives; always have carbs with me and use them if necessary; pull off the road if feeling “off” and check BG. And never, never do what those in the list above do. Safe driving involves more than not passing out.

2 Likes
5

Lets explore “risk.”

Would you still check “yes” if it resulted in you not being able to drive for the previous 2 years during covid when all the systems broke down? That’s the “risk” that we were dealing with in this particular location.

6

I would have no problem with even the “do you take insulin” question if there were follow-up questions that ask how many years have you been driving and how many years have you been taking insulin? Then not require a medical evaluation for anyone with a yes to insulin that has not had any insulin-related driving issues in say the past 3 or 5 years.

In case of an accident, it would certainly be beneficial for medical and police staff to know they are dealing with a diabetic right up front. I am willing to give that disclosure in return for a possible better outcome in times of an accident.

People will say my position could or would lead to discrimination, however, if there were to be an accident of any consequence, my diabetic status could not be hidden.

7

There is no specific info given to police or medics through the DMV process. Standard, national protocol is that information is provided through medical identification tags worn by the patient in the event that they are unconscious - those are commonly called “med tags” or medical identification bracelets.

EMTs and paramedics respond to the patient - they do NOT look through your wallet, or go through your glove compartments, or your car. They do not make phone calls to the DMV. They walk up to YOU to perform a physical evaluation.

The identification that your EMTs and nurses look for when they examine someone who is unconscious is shown below. Its the same thing an army medic looks for. You want that to read “insulin dependent diabetic,” not just “diabetic.” That’s how they are notified that you take insulin.

image

Patient assessment looks like this. I think its good for you guys to see how that evaluation works. Its basically the same in all cases for all patients. If you are unconscious in a car on the side of the road, its the same process

In real life, diabetics are (almost) never unconscious unless there is a separate traumatic injury like you rolled over your car. We end up telling them that we are diabetic…or they see the medical tags.

Notice that “Call the DMV for additional information,” appears no where during this assessment process, nor would it ever occur to anyone to do that. Nor would the DMV have any information to provide if you did manage to get them on the phone, which you never would because no one calls the DMV - they drive to their physical location if they want information from them and wait in line.

Here’s medical eval:

1 Like
8

In MA, one of the first tasks a police officer does during or even prior to a traffic stop or accident is run the plates on the car and an amazing amount of information comes up on their onboard computer screen. That information comes from various national databases including the DMV. I would like the officer(s) to have my diabetic status upfront as it could be helpful.

Would the officer(s) remember to give that information to EMT or other medical personnel during “fog of war event”, who knows but they don’t even have the chance to offer the information if they don’t have it.

9

I would not expect the PD to provide any medical care whatsoever - that would be very unorthodox. If they think there’s a medical event, they call an ambulance and keep cars from hitting the ambulance workers. That’s protocol. Those are their primary responsibilities. That’s what they do.

The goal with police should always be to encourage them to call an ambulance. Sometimes that’s a pretty big struggle in itself. I think we can be honest about that. Their role is not probably what you imagine it is. They call medics for medical care to be provided. You don’t want police responsible for medical treatment. They are not good at it.

10

I totally agree and would not want any medical care from the PD at any tme.

11

I think a well controlled diabetic using insulin, and using cgm, can honestly say No.

3 Likes
12

I’ve never see the insulin question ever asked of me.
The second question i whole heartedly answer no.
I’ve been diabetic for 35 years and I’ve never lost consciousness from it or using insulin. Have I ever been impaired? Maybe once, but that wasn’t the question.

They should ask questions like have you ever passed out from drinking too much or do you take any medications that could impair your operation of a motor vehicle.

I do think that lying could get you in trouble as dmv forms usually have an attestation and a threat of perjury.

Im glad I haven’t had the insulin question.
Still my doctor provides me with a letter every year stating thst I am healthy enough to drive. I just never use it because no one has asked for it. Since I answer truthfully to the second question.

1 Like
13

@mohe0001 FWIW I would answer Yes, then No. Yes I take insulin and no to loss of consciousness because of all the great robo-tech I have at my availability no thanks to the DMV and local government. Period. Which even assumes that I answer the questions at all. I would most likely send the form in without answering them and see what happens. When called out on it I would just explain that I thought that was optional.

14

You could also see what your state thinks (online without asking the DMV obvs) are the medical conditions that would cause loss of consciousness that it is searching for. There is a master list somewhere, and it will be available on the internet…somewhere you just have to look hard enough.

15

California has had that question for a looong time. I have answered Yes for my entire driving history (decades). The word they use is “may” or “could”, and that can get you into trouble.

There is a follow-up question on what the condition is, and I write “Insulin Dependent Diabetes with continuous glucose monitor”. I am prepared to swear that I check my BG with the CGM any time I drive, and that I have emergency sugar in a container that I can reach while driving and easily open with one hand, in case I can’t easily get out of traffic quickly when my CGM alarm goes off. The last time I passed out was 1986 from DKA, but that was when I was diagnosed.

The DMV has never demanded a form from my doctor, and a check of my driving record would show only one accident (multi-car accident in the 90s which was caused by another driver), and only 2 tickets ever. I live in a large city, so maybe a glance at my record is all they bothered to do. (So many people, such long lines!) I’ll find out this October, as my license is up for renewal.

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16

I don’t think they have an established plan for how to deal with this question because on the online application - they ask the same type of question 2 different ways. We eliminated the insulin question. The online form asks: 1.) Do you take any medications that might impair; and 2.) Do you have a medical condition that might impair.

I suspect that if you answer Yes to either, then you are stuck with the DMV making you jump through hoops for the rest of eternity.

I’ve noticed that different personalities answer questions like this very differently. People imagine very creative reasons for why thy might need to answer Yes because the question is open ended. Same on the No side. That might be the reason that they asked the very specific insulin question, originally.

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17

Some consideration should be given to liability in case hypo episode caused a serious accident. When my hypo episodes became more serious, I switched from no to yes.

The Ohio form the docs fill has a question for how often reevaluation is needed. Reevaluaiton not required is one of the choices.