Statins for diabetics good or bad

Type 1 and LADA
1

Dear TU people.

Several years ago I researched statin drugs because my MD had suggested I take them because I was diabetic, not because my number was too high. What I found was shocking to me. There are many organizations and meta studies that show these drugs cause dementia, Alzheimer's being at the top of the list. The big fact is that the human brain is 60% LDL cholesterol and when this fat is reduced in the body the brain physically shrinks causing depression first because it reduces serotonin, and the fat is responsible for regenerating neurons. Without LDL the brain degenerates and eventually causes problems. Humans have been meat eaters for millions of years so our systems are fine tuned to do this.

Drug companies practice something called disease mongering, by telling doctors that people with certain diseases should be increasing the profits of their share holders. When I heard this I told my doctor never to insult me like that again and I was super pissed. I eat as much fatty beef as I can, because people with the highest levels of LDL never die of heart disease. Heart disease is caused by stress not LDL and blaming LDL is like blaming the firefighters for the fire.. Have fun and laugh and that is way more effective than a statin. The original study in the 70s eliminated over 90% of their data, typical of greedy drug companies, just like the H1N1 shot which was also a total lie.

I have a writeup about this issue. Just ask.

Don

2

The numbers physicians use to determine whether or not you need statins is totally arbitrary. In fact, no one can prove one way or the other that cholesterol is the killer ‘they’ would have us believe. If you subscribe to a super healthy diet such as the McDougall plan, there is no need to take statins. More importantly, you can reduce, significantly, your need for diabetic meds.

3

The McDougall plan is exactly the opposite of what most diabetics ought to be doing.

4

since when has the H1N1 vaccine been a total lie?!?!

5

thanks for the clarification.

6

I refused statins when I was diagnosed & am still refusing them. I don’t believe they’re prevention & carry risks I’d prefer to avoid. Statins appear to be quite over-prescribed. The marketing of this drug is overkill. I often wonder if there’s a contest among doctors to see who can have the most patients on statins:) Their education about meds comes mostly from pharm sales reps. Isn’t that a wonderful system for patient welfare!

7

I believe what you are saying. I am a type 2 diabetic and when I was diagnosed - 7 yrs ago I was put on Eveything - you name it. I hurt all over -the same way my elderly in-laws did before they quit statins. I know another older couple that stopped them. At present I am just now quitting them. Depression ? yes definitely.....alzheimers ? I don't need any help there, my mother had it. Thanks for the update on this crucial problem.

8

Nearly all vegetarians are depressed due to low levels of serotonin which is equivalent to taking statins

Source?? :-)

Maurie

9

The question I had was about nearly all vegetarians being depressed. I don't think I've seen any study on the question and it doesn't correspond to my experience... Just tweaking.

10

You know, I have felt so beaten down by doctors. I have always been a 'yes' person, the good little patient who just blindly went along with whatever she was told. Well I am approaching the final 1/3 of my life most likely,and do NOT prefer to spend it with all the aches and pains and nausea of rx drugs just so someone can make their quota. Thanks for all the enlightening conversation people !!

11

Vegetarians get so depressed that they can't even bring themselves to enjoy simple pleasures like lamb chops.
I once Had a Vegetarian friend that could not even bring himself to eat FILLET MIGNON !
NOW THAT IS DEPRESSION. At least now I know why.

Everyone knows that hamburgers are mood stabilizers. Ask anyone.

Back to the topic. My doctor insisted I take a statin and my total cholesterol is 150.

Hdl about 55 and I cant remember my last LDL but I know it's low.

Exercise is the key to keeping your cholesterol and HDL/LDL in order,
Diet effects Triglicerides. A little of diet can change cholesterol esp if you give up animal products. Most of our Cholesterol is produced by our own bodies.

I just don't do anything that seems to not fit for me.
I'm sure statins help some people. I just don't think they are needed for me. If my numbers get out of whack or if I develop some corinary obstructions, I'll consider the options.

12

i agree with maurie, that is a very broad statement to make re: veges all being depressed.
Kitty it sounds like your a staunch bernstein groupie, hflc rah rah...thats all fine, but im sure statins do help some people

13

I am shocked at how unscientific this thread is....people just cite belief or voodoo instead of science published in authoritative, peer-reviewed journals. When I am making a decision as to whether to take a medication, I'd like to see what are the effects in a large population ? Is it effective ? Is it safe ? What are the side effects ?

I don't care what some fool without training on the internet says - anyone can make a web site these days and complain that drug x made them stupid, sick, etc.

The bottom line is that there are multiple studies that show that reducing cholesterol in diabetics dramatically reduces the incidence of coronary heart disease (CHD).

Here is a graph summarizing the results of some of the many studies on this:

The studies clearly show a strong correlation with reduction in coronary heart disease events with reduction in cholesterol. HOW you achieve the reduction is your choice....for some people, diet and exercise work, for others, it may take statins to reduce the risk.

Heart disease is the complication that ends up killing most diabetics. It's not something to ignore.

14

Dear HPN Pilot - Do realize that everything medical "experts" say usually reverse themselves to the contrary within a year or less? Shellfish is BAD for you....oh no, it isn't afterall - its good for your cholesterol. ECT ECT ECT ECT ECT. Here's the thing...People Know Their Own Bodies and how they react to meds - Doctors DO NOT. They are not living the life you are - with me taking 15 pills and one shot of insulin a day. I wouldn't stop my bp meds or something as important as that without asking BUT - also, if you say, well, I'm overweight and I know all these Diabetes meds you are prescribing for me are packing on the lbs - they just look at you with a blank stare. The point is NONE OF THEM CARE about your situation - they just get off on being the DR and passing out RXS. I hate to say its true, I have one two doctors in particular that I like very much - but they (once again) DO NOT CARE about me - they are writing RXS to fill their quota so they can keep their jobs in a practice. Sorry, (no, I'm not) -but I have just reached my limit and am tired of feeling sick everyday because of the muscle pain from statins as well as the elevated blood sugar and many more things. I'm not going to be a slave to meds anymore - I'm not going to waste what time I have left here on this earth in the shape I'm in.

15

#1) If you are having muscle pain or other side effects, that is a problem. If your physician doesn't listen, then you need to find someone else.

And note carefully above that I did *not* say the solution was to take a drug. I said that particular study showed that cholesterol was linked to CHD. And I said there are multiple ways to address that.

#2)I do agree with you that you have to listen to your specific body and people
have idiosyncratic reactions to medications. You definitely have to be your own advocate. The point I am making is Joe suckfinger , CNN or Fox web site, or Betty Boops Diabetes Cure-All web site is not a source of accurate information. If you want to really understand all the things that go wrong, you need to go to the scientific literature and sort it out.

Unfortunately, the general public's science education is miserable today.

#3) Many physicians do not practice medicine in a scientific fashion...they just work on rote learning from 20 years ago in med school and what "worked" on the last patient. Few of them practice evidence-based medicine. An MD is basically a glorified technicians degree with an apprenticeship, like an auto mechanic. Few physicians have done or continue to do original scientific research. And few keep up with the latest knowledge.

It takes time and effort to find the precious few that know what they are doing and those few appreciate knowledgeable patients that are interested in their own care.

Just think about how many people in school got C's or D's in class. No one likes to think their physician is the C student. But the odds are he/she was.....

As for me, I want to live the next 30-40 years I have with good quality of life. I do *not* want to die early of a heart attack as most diabetics do. So I am going to learn as much as I can and do what I need to to reduce the risk. Of course that means good blood sugar control among other things, and if it means , after studying the risks and rewards, taking steps to dramatically reduce my LDL I will do that too.

16

Marty -

I am sorry you think that your physicians are prescribing drugs that harm you in order to make extra money. You should fire your doctors and find ones that are honest. It is hard to believe that an individual would go college and medical school for 7 years and then work as an intern and resident with long hours and minimal pay so that they might make extra money by pushing drugs. There are easier ways to make a lot of money.

I have no problem with your decision not to take statins but there is no need to slander a class of people.

Maurie

17

I was wondering if someone would actually provide scientific evidence other than pure anecdotal evidence in this thread...

Not that people's personal experience is invalid, but when it comes to some claims made...yeah...

18

My Dr has tried to get me on Crestor for the last 3 years. Something inside me has always declined... I've read articles against and for this drug but there seems to be more articles (by Drs) against statin use. I personally pay more attention to my BG numbers than worrying about my absolutely normal cholesterol level... Eat good healthy food, exercise and cholesterol will take care of itself in almost all people...

Just my 2 cents, Paul

19

For completeness, here is an abstract of a study published in the British journal "Lancet" looking at whether statins had a benefit in over 18,000 patients with diabetes.

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Efficacy of cholesterol-lowering therapy in 18,686 people with diabetes in 14 randomised trials of statins: a meta-analysis.
(PMID:18191683)
Abstract
Citations
BioEntities
Related Articles
Cholesterol Treatment Trialists' (CTT) Collaborators, Kearney PM, Blackwell L, Collins R, Keech A, Simes J, Peto R, Armitage J, Baigent C
Lancet [2008, 371(9607):117-25]
Type: Journal Article, Meta-Analysis, Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't

DOI: 10.1016/S0140-6736(08)60104-X

Abstract Highlight Terms
Gene Ontology(1) Diseases(4) Chemicals(3)
BACKGROUND: Although statin therapy reduces the risk of occlusive vascular events in people with diabetes mellitus, there is uncertainty about the effects on particular outcomes and whether such effects depend on the type of diabetes, lipid profile, or other factors. We undertook a prospective meta-analysis to help resolve these uncertainties.

METHODS: We analysed data from 18 686 individuals with diabetes (1466 with type 1 and 17,220 with type 2) in the context of a further 71,370 without diabetes in 14 randomised trials of statin therapy. Weighted estimates were obtained of effects on clinical outcomes per 1.0 mmol/L reduction in LDL cholesterol.

FINDINGS: During a mean follow-up of 4.3 years, there were 3247 major vascular events in people with diabetes. There was a 9% proportional reduction in all-cause mortality per mmol/L reduction in LDL cholesterol in participants with diabetes (rate ratio [RR] 0.91, 99% CI 0.82-1.01; p=0.02), which was similar to the 13% reduction in those without diabetes (0.87, 0.82-0.92; p<0.0001). This finding reflected a significant reduction in vascular mortality (0.87, 0.76-1.00; p=0.008) and no effect on non-vascular mortality (0.97, 0.82-1.16; p=0.7) in participants with diabetes. There was a significant 21% proportional reduction in major vascular events per mmol/L reduction in LDL cholesterol in people with diabetes (0.79, 0.72-0.86; p<0.0001), which was similar to the effect observed in those without diabetes (0.79, 0.76-0.82; p<0.0001). In diabetic participants there were reductions in myocardial infarction or coronary death (0.78, 0.69-0.87; p<0.0001), coronary revascularisation (0.75, 0.64-0.88; p<0.0001), and stroke (0.79, 0.67-0.93; p=0.0002). Among people with diabetes the proportional effects of statin therapy were similar irrespective of whether there was a prior history of vascular disease and irrespective of other baseline characteristics. After 5 years, 42 (95% CI 30-55) fewer people with diabetes had major vascular events per 1000 allocated statin therapy. INTERPRETATION: Statin therapy should be considered for all diabetic individuals who are at sufficiently high risk of vascular events.

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42 fewer per 1000 had major vascular events.

Note the careful words they used: statin therapy should be *considered*.

20

Please let me know where you are purchasing animal insulin. I can't find a source in the US nor Canada.