Type 2 and shooting insulin

Type 2
1

Is there any reason why type 2 should not just be taking insulin right from the get go?

Is it money? Is it bad for you?

I am just curious. My doctor now has prescribed Juvunia.

Being 3.5 times higher than the normal range in insulin, I really am scared of any drug that stimulates my pancreas to extrete more insulin.

I have researched both drugs Byetta and Juvunia. Byetta is the lesser of the two evils.

But both drugs seem to stimulate the pancreas to make more insulin. Which is not really what I want to do with my pancreas.

If a cure comes it will be with having a healthy pancreas not a dead one.

Can you guys weigh on it this?

Thanks so much,

Angela

2

i doesn’t hurt to do research for yourself but in my opinion you should ask these questions to your doctor. when my doctor prescribed lantus she explained to me why lantus was better for me than other fast acting insulin and later when she prescribed me humalog explained why i needed the two insulins at the same time. there is a reason why doctor prescribed you that particular. may be she has had good experience with that, may she knows you’ll handle that insulin better than others. but in any case, only your doctor can give you a definitive answer. if you don’t like it you can ask for a second opinion. so remember, always ask your doctor about this.

about finding a cure for diabetes one can only shoot for the moon, but until that happens we all have to take the best care of ourselves with the tools we have.

take care!

3

Hi Ivan!

Thanks for the response. What I was asking is there a reason why type 2s don’t go directly on insulin.

Byetta and Jevunia are drugs that are not insulin rather they increase pancreas production.

And for someone who is already extreting 3.5 times the normal amount of insulin why would I want to make my pancreas extrete more?

I have mentioned my fears to my doctor and not wanting to burn out the pancreas and she kinda dismisses it and say but it only makes you extrete more when you eat.

But to me that is still making my pancreas work harder than it currently is.

I have read a book by a type 1 diabetic long ago who was also an MD. He did not believe at all in making the pancreas work more. He advocated insulin for Type 2s because if a cure is going to come you need a healthy pancreas not a dead one from overworking it.

So I was just wondering if there is a reason for not taking drugs and by passing to insulin.

It is a fine line when asking a doctor to explain their actions and tell them why you are concerned and questioning what they do.

I haven’t had much luck with doctors.

thanks for your help!

Angela

4

See if you can get your doc to prescribe metformin. I had the same issue when I was diagnosed, was put on glyburide which stimulates the pancreas to make more insulin, and the more I learned, I realized that I indeed probably had excesses of insulin but that it just could not be used. Metformin as I understand it helps your cells use the insulin that is already in your body, much healthier as a first option I think (and I finally got to an endo who put me on metformin to protect my pancreas and not continue to burn it out).

5

again, ask your doctor. it is very common for diabetes type 2 patients to start on a pill like metphormin and then move to insulin if needed, but this may also depend on the patient and doctor. i know a person who started with both insulin and pills because her A1C levels were too high. if you have a doubt ask your doctor. we all have different experience with pills and insulins.

6

oh im sorry. i guess i hadnt had that experience. i go to the diabetes center at upmc in pittsburgh. i love my doctor! she is great, she takes time to listen and answer my questions.

7

Hi Ellie,

The first drug she started me on was metformin. I would say it works some but my bGs were still too high after 2 hours she said (meaning 170-190).

So she tried me on Byetta, I have used it on and off and it does help some. But I can’t take it at the same time with the metformin the combination is too much for me.

So, is trying juvavian next. I literally am scared of taking this drug with the cancer rate it has.

So right now I am doing byetta in the morning, metformin (1000) with lunch, byetta with dinner.

Initially she did not tell me to watch what I was eating - which is why it was 170-190 range.

Now I am watching what I eat in the way of carbs because I did research. Honestly, it is doing some what good for me (getting to be anywhere from 105-140 2 hours after with a wicked controlled diet) but not the answer.

But I still know this is too high for me.

One time I ate 75 carbs and 2 hours later I was 224 with only taking metformin.

Recently I ate steak tips, mashed potatoes, and salad at dinner. I went to bed with a bg of 91 yippee) and woke up with 118 (yeah!). This made a huge different in my day! My emotions, mental and physical well being. My BG stayed lower most of the day in the 90s except for lunch when I ate and used metformin. When I did that I again was struggling to get it down. I had 45 carbs and I was at 165 2 hours later. I felt tired and wanting to sleep.

8

Thanks Ivan,

I think I am going to switch doctors. Her next available appointment for me is March 26th, 2009. That is 4 months from now and too me that is too long for a diabetic person who does have a firm grasp on the BGS yet.

My Adopted Sister is on Insulin and she is type 2.

9

Dear Angela.

You raise some very good points. Nothing kills a pancreas quicker that BG out of control and you wonder about the logic of using drugs to force the pancreas to produce more insulin. Is this a way to kill it completely? When you do you are in real trouble.

If you are a very mild diabetic you may do on pills for a long while. In my case the best one metformin made me very sick.

There was a Doctor from McMaster University in Hamilton Ontario that was preaching that all diabetics should be on insulin.

In my case the worst result from insulin is enormous weight gain. You feel constantly hungry. I think it is a make fat hormone. Weight gain is a disaster for a normal person and even worst for a diabetic. Sticking a needle into the tummy grease, pricking fingers, putting up with the occaisional low are all trivial problems compared to the weight gain.

There is no easy road to heaven.

10

My Doc put my on Lantus, Humalog and Metformin all at the same time, the very first day I was diagnosed.
I hate pills and especially shots, I have never taken a pill in my life and I have been very resistant to being dx.

I had no idea that insulin promoted weight gain, all I did notice is that since I have been on these meds, I have put on about 45 pounds and my doctor has been saying lose, lose, lose. I got myself down to under 1000 calories and am getting puffier and puffier, definitely not losing.

Anybody got any suggestions on how to lose the weight, I have been watching Biggest Loser on Tv and everyone one of those people that have been losing weight and have also lost their connection to Diabetes. so is that the answer? if we lose will the diabetes go away?

I am one of those people that have ask and ask questions of my doctor and they don’t like to answer, just take your pills and shot and be a good little follower.

I am not looking for cure all answers from anybody, I would just like to know what you have experienced.

Has anybody had any luck with all natural products? Type 2 diabetes is very expensive to have.
it is like having another car payment each month. Regular Doctor, Endo, Eye Doctor, foot doctor, pills, shots and then they want you to pay extra to go to a nutritionist every visit before you go to the Endo. Do they think we are made of money?
I have found it is coming to the place where I can’t afford to be sick and that is how I look at diabetes as a sickness. something bad that has happened to me. It is hard for my mind to wrap around anything other than I did this to myself with my food and lifestyle choices, so I should be able to change it.

does anyone else feel that?

I have gotten it in my head that I need to get off these meds or my body is going to become dependent and I will never be able to live without pills. I heard that diabetes also leads to high blood pressure and heart disease. and there may never be a cure, but we have to control it the rest of our lives.

My trigger foods are pasta and white bread. I can’t tough any of them or my BG levels go thru the roof.
I have been taking meds for over a year now, but I have been in such denial and trying to get myself off, that in that year, I have never been under control. One time, I took the wrong insulin, fast acting vs slow acting, and that is the only time, my BG levels went low.

I would love any feedback

11

You have been gaining weight because you have insulin resistance, not the other way around. Read throughout these forums and you will learn that you have no cause to feel guilt. Insulin resistance causes weight gain, diabetes (high blood sugar), high blood pressure, and poor cholesterol.

And the reason doctors won’t tell you HOW to lose weight, is that they don’t have a clue how someone with insulin resistance should lose weight. I’m learning, on this site, that the only way to improve insulin resistance and lose weight is through low-carb eating.

Read all the forums, and try some of the links to other sites that people here recommend. Bless you.

12

although most of what you say is true, I guess so far I am blessed, cause my cholesterol is only 107, the bad is high though, 70 and the good is 37. I have almost no iron levels and almost no magnesium or potassium levels and my tsh levels are way off. this is what started the whole thing for me
OVER active thyroid. my doc said I have all the symptoms except the losing the weight part. of course my luck.
I want to get my body back in order, and am afraid that all this medication will make my body dependant. is that wrong?
I have had a weight problem for years and now it is getting worse and he recommends gastric bypass, but also said that I have to reduce what I eat and exercise. why have surgery them?

13

There is a lot of debate about this subject. Currently the reason people don’t usually start on insulin, is because there are standard of care guidelines (like the ADA has) that most doctors follow when caring for a patient. It follows a progression approach that uses A1C values, BGs and time periods to evaluate change.

Most doctors don’t like to prescribe insulin, because drugs like metformin, Byetta, Januvia, and the Glitazones, help to increase insulin sensitivity even if some help produce it too. Excess insulin has been shown to cause cardiac risks, and other health problems. It also usually causes weight gain in what is usually an already overweight population. No one wants that. The crazy thing is that if insulin is used immediately to lower blood sugars, it can often be discontinued after BGs have been lowered, and prove to help preserve the beta cells from glucose toxicity. Then the other drugs can work even more effectively.

I’m no expert, this is just what I’ve read.

14

Hey Angela:

From what I understand, if your pancreas has those beta cells and the cells can recreate themselves. The DR’s true mission is to make the most of your working body parts. They don’t want to interfere too soon. Usually, going on insulin means a weight gain! I would trust the DR for the time being that this is the best for you. You don’t want to go on insulin too early and ruin your pancreas.

Talk to me soon kiddo!

Lois La Rose

15

I have had 2 doctors recommend the same surgery to me if they can’t help me to loose weight.

Eating less won’t do it if you are insulin resistant. You have to eat the right foods and be on the right meds.

Exercise tells your body to burn the carbs in a different way.

watching diet/carbs ensures you don’t gain weight from the over production of insulin (if you have insulin resistance).

For me I have been dieting all my life and I had a hug weight gain in 4 years time span where I gained 100+ pounds.

I am an ex athlete. My knees are shot from sports.

So in my case one doctor is recommending it because I need to exercise but the weight is too much for my knees.

Another doctor is recommending it as a last solution to the weight problem. Saying that the bypass reverse insulin resitances and type 2 diabetes.

As well as helps you loose weight.

Don’t know if that helps…

16

Hey Mandy,

I didn’t think about the weight gain.

I thought if I shoot insulin then maybe my pancreas won’t make as much and maybe my body will respond better to the synthetic insulin instead of my own.

does that make sense?

But I hadn’t thought of the possible weight gain. thanks for that thought :slight_smile:

17

Your questions point out some of the reasons type 2 is so tricky to treat. The first problem is insulin resistance, in which the body is not as able to use the insulin it produces. Genetics, weight, and inflammation all contribute to insulin resistance. Some classes of oral meds make the body more receptive to its own insulin.

Over time, the body produces less insulin, and may eventually stop insulin production altogether. Other classes of diabetes meds stimulate insulin production, as you mention. Eventually, though, an outside source of insulin is often required (as the body ages, insulin production slows, and insulin resistance continues to increase).

Some studies have shown that starting type 2s on insulin earlier may provide a “rest” for the pancreas so it continues to produce at least some of its own insulin. But the primary reason doctors start people on insulin is to tame blood sugars and avoid complications.

Byetta works on a different hormone than insulin, a gut hormone that works with the liver (which is involved with the release of glucose into the body).

As a type 1 who has used insulin for 35 years, I know from far too much experience that it can cause slight weight gain. But it doesn’t “magically” cause weight gain–only if a person consumes more calories than she needs! Yep, I’m guilty of that!

People new to insulin may at first notice a rather drastic weight increase because the insulin works on excess blood glucose, which was formerly eliminated in urine. The insulin “unlocks” the glucose for use in the body, where it can be used as fuel if calories are adequate or tuned into fat cells if calories are too high.

With all the emphasis on weight and type 2, the thought of taking something that can cause weight gain seems counterintuitive. But again, blood glucose control (as measured by A1C) is the most meaningful way to avoid diabetes complications.

One other thing I wish more doctors would emphasize: regular physical activity. It can lower blood sugar, improve insulin resistance, and keep weight in check. Plus, offers blood pressure and other cardio benefits. I also wish I would emphasize this for myself, 'cause I hate doing it, but know it works!!

18

Thank you

19

I have been trying so hard to eat right, exercise, drink lots of water and keep my diabetes under control.
I hate it, I hate the word, I hate the disease. I feel like I should be ashamed and it is my fault, if Only, I was smarter, better. not so lazy I would not have diabetes. I am not saying this is right, but I am saying it is how I feel.
NO ONE in my family has any history, no one else has any problems.And I have a huge family. both parents, I turned 50 and my body turned on me. My sisters and brothers, all older than I am and are the pictures of good health. what did I do wrong?

no matter what I do, how many pills I take or how much insulin I inject, my BG runs between 200 and 300 during the day and my fasting 1st morning one is always 159 or above. I have a sedentary job, but when I get home at night, i walk and do my aerobics. everyone has said exercise is the answer, and eating right, i have gotten myself down to 900 calories a day and still am NOT losing weight.
I said the word diet and my husband lost 40 pounds.

I am afraid to go back to the doctors and have my A1C measured. what am I doing wrong? this is crazy. and did I mention I hate it.

I don’t have the money to go to all these appointments, pay for all these medications,and supplies. I need to find a healthy way to get my body back in line. yet nothing seems to be working, how much time does it take before your eyes go bad? someone told me high BG levels made you lose your eyesight, I am petrified.

I feel tired, shaky, hot, cold, blatty, sick to my stomach all the time. My heart feels like it is always racing, yet the doc told me it was fine. Did anyone else have any problems or bad feeling when they started. and yes, I know I am NOT having a mental breakdown, I have heard that too.
Am I crazy?

20

Every case is different. I would have your a1c measured. It needs to be measured especially if self testing is yielding those results.

Scientists say some people in general when over eating will burn the extra calroies through heat. My adopted sister being one of those people. She could eat anything and not gain weight.

While others will store it as fat.

One solution won’t work for everyone. You have to be a detective of your own body and figure it out. Research it, don’t rely on others to tell you what is right or wrong.

You need to take notice with your body and try different things.

For me Red Meat does wonders, over chicken and fish. When I told that to my doctor she said probably because it takes longer to digest. She thought it was curious.

The diet is not just calories. you have to find the foods that work for you.

For example, I am insulin resistant. I am 324.5 pounds. I have lost roughly 25 pounds through medication of metformin and byetta combining it with diet. When I let me carbs be higher with same overall calorie intake I will not loose weight.

I am an ex-athlete (college scholarship), I have dieted all my life as well as worked out and played sports since 3rd grade. I have always had an issue with my weight since 6th grade where my belly weight started.

My birth parents (adopted so not a learned behavior or eating habits) one is 300+ (father) pounds and the other gained to 240. My mothers father type 2 was 400+ pounds. My mothers mother, type 1 was only 15 pounds overweight.

My endo has set my rapid weight gain was due to Insulin resistance. NOT the other way around.

At 246 I was running a 10 minute mile 2.5 miles and biking 30 minutes a day while eating 1800-2000 calories a diet. For me according to all the statistics I should have lost weight easily. Took me 9 months to loose 13 pounds.

According to a nutritionist I should currently be able to eat 2500 calories a day diet without working out and loose weight. With weight ~325.

Not the case.

But I did realize if I was eating a 1800 calories a day diet but it was heavier on carbs not as much weight loss if it was the other way around.

900 calories a day depending on your body and weight could ver well starve your body so it will get use to using less and conserve the fat.

Everyone has different thresholds.

I was feeling like crap but my A1c was only 6.3 but my Insulin levels were 93 (26 was the max for diabetic and 9 was the max for normal person).

I worked on it through medicine and diet. Now I am 6.0 feeling alot better and my insulin is at 37 (26 for diabetic and 9 for normal person) meaning I am still high.

But I am feeling better because I started taking metformin and then byetta.

Once you slip with carbs it can get into a vicious cycle if you are insulin resistant. Meaning you eat carbs you emit insulin it doesn’t use the sugar the sugar stores at fat but all the insulin running in your blood stream is calling and craving food. So you feel like ■■■■ and eat something. And it continues…

This is what my doctor explained to me.

But overall you have to become responsible for figuring it out. Your own little detective. because the medical community doesn’t know fully what is going on.

To expect everyone to respond the same is silly. especially when all our dna is unique.

Hoped this helped.

Angela