Try the Ezekiel Raisin bread:)Delicious. I had two slices today,(hard 18 mile MTB ride last night and commuted by bike to work this am)French toast style covered with 2 tbs of strawberry cream cheese. 45g of carbs or so, but it was worth it:)
The official rec is not to exercise over 250, or you'll pass ketones. It is bad for the body, you are right.
I try to be at 140 to exercise, and end up at 80 or so when done. But if I were to exercise longer, I'd still only be at 140 at the start, and would have carbs during it, rather than go super high before.
Wow..270mg/dL that's not good for your body, some of the T1D pro athletes do this but their after that big win, a medal, the blue ribbon, it doesn't seem like it's worth the risk just for a everyday morning run but YMMV.
You could probably do the same run with a low carb breakfast and small amounts of fast acting carbs during your run and reduce that big spike down to 140mg/dL...;-)
Both of the T1 runners with whom I chatted at last year's Chicago Marathon were > 300 in the starting corral. I think that the adreneline of a "big run" can help mask the slushy feelings but I agree that low carb or maybe moderate carb for > 2 hour runs can make a much flatter curve without the highs.
I don't usually go > 200 (ever) so I don't have a lot of experience but I would suspect that it impairs your performance, however tough one is? For 10K run, I use about 25G of carbs, a swig every couple of miles, generally in Gatorade on fuel belt. I bring some jelly beans in the pouch but bring them home a lot. If we're going > 10 miles, I'll have toast. I also try to eat about 2 hours before we run to give the insulin on board a chance to "clear" my system?
It's possible correct duration and intensity, before going on intermediate effort bike rides I will consume a 42g cliff bar and a 15g chocolate #9 gel for a faster acting profile and go ride for 1 1/2 hours with a -50% basal and no bolus and usually end the ride within a range of 90-120.
I couldn't imagine trying to exercise at 270, I'll eat 60-70g of carbs pre-exercise with no bolus at around 100 and at the end have my sugar be between 90-120. I've done it with a cgm loaner program and my sugar generally topped out at 130-140 during an hour and half mountain bike ride.
I think being at 300 for a marathon, which presumably a person will do twice a year, is not as damaging as being at 270 everyday for exercise.
I can understand that.
I can't imagine exercising at 270 either. I'd change my exercise before I'd raise BG that high regularly.
I have the same thing every day: coffee with a splash of cream and a sugar-free protein shake with almond milk, ground flax seed, and a teaspoon of peanut butter. This is <10 carbs, but I bolus more aggressively than I do for later meals because I have such a strong tendency to spike after breakfast. When I used to eat oatmeal or other whole grains for breakfast, I always ended up over 200, so I cut that out!
Same. I'd switch to some light yoga rather than go that high on a regular basis.
In the end, it is your body. We all have to find a number where we are comfortable with the possible risk of complications. If you like running so much you're willing to risk complications for it, it is your choice to do so.
Garethc, I think it's great that you've found a way to continue something you have an obvious passion for despite the diabetes. Quality of life is important.
Plus being high for a 45 minute run isn't the same as running consistently high for hours. During that 45 minute run, you're coming down fast.
Good luck and take care! Happy running! :)
And you don't pass ketones at 270 BG?
I run 20-30 miles/ week most of the time but just started training for Chicago again so that will go up. Daily is 5-6 3x/ week and "long" run on the weekends, although I'm cutting back on the 10 miles I'd been running on the weekends to run with a group.
I usually seem to eat about 80-100G of carbs/ day although I guess I don't count 25-40 I eat while I'm running. My average BG for the last 30 days is 91 though. For me, it works better to run close to "the edge" and have a small amount of carbs to kick it up around 120 to run, and then hit the gatorade while I run, as much for hydration/ sports procedures (it's 95 here today...no running though, xtraining this AM, lifted and elliptical!) as for BG but it usually works out ok turning my basal down to about 60% for 6 mile runs and 40% for 10+ with light snacking along the way. I think that it's more about the timing of runs and that the need to do "carb loading" is a bit of a myth?
I don't run long distance, but that is definitely the approach I'd take if I did - hitting the carbs in small amounts during it.
LOL, of course I'm an "amateur" as no one is paying me to run! It seems like you are "carb loading" though, eating oatmeal, 2 pieces of toast and juice? If it works for you, heay great but I don't think that it's necessary.
I am also reasonably certain that not running my BG up to 200 every time I run has health benefits. If my BG does run up, I will have a whiff of insulin from my pump. It works great during a run, so it's not a whole lot and, in the great scheme of things, maybe 200 every now and then isn't a big deal but I try to avoid them. I try to win every test and, for that matter, every peek at my CGM.
I asked a question similar to this recently. I was told that I had to eat something and take some insulin or I would spike. Well....
I eat one Mrs. Butterworths waffle with some whipped butter on it EVERY morning. It is 13 carbs, so I bolus for that, and any needed upward correction. I never dial it down for a low.
Sometimes it works (today was fantastic, smooth and a flatline) and other days it does not. I have had some 100s spike to 220. Mornings are a real ......
I do not feel it is about what you eat, but how your system responds, especially in the morning. Husband and I spoke about this at dinner. I hate to say it, but no matter what, it will still always be a crapshoot. Sorry.
I feel better knowing I am not alone - If I eat any carbs more than 1/2 slice of toast with my eggs and bacon I go way... up. I love bacon and eggs or sausage and eggs but has to start giving up the fatty protein for leaner ones, any ideas of tasty alternatives?
I don't think I was "criticizing" or being snide as much as "disagreeing" with statements like "you can't bolus before a long run" that may lead someone else to think "I can't bolus before a long run" or questioning eating a lot of carbs before running. Oatmeal, 2 pieces of toast and juice are a lot of carbs.
I don't disgree it's *extremely* dangerous to bolus before or during long runs however it's not an unreasonble approach to high BG that one can run across while running either, as long as you are careful. I was sort of shocked that both of the people I ran into at the Chicago Marathon had cranked their BG up to 300 before the race as I don't think one has to do that, although perhaps it only works that way with a pump. I never tried the modern basal insulins so I don't know how they work.
I don't agree with cereal and toast and juice, regrdless of by whom it's such a diet would be recommended. I don't believe that they are correct. I am certain they are co-opted by the general tendency among "theorists" about diabetes that the "recommended" A1C of 6.5 or 7.0 is ok, even though it means running at BG level significantly above normal. I'd feel badly to drop it and let other members take that away from our conversation about breakfast.
I felt I needed to eat carbs to fuel runs the same way until I was hanging around here, c. Jan 2011 and decided to try a week of running (only an "amateur" 33 miles...) on about 30-40G of carbs. I had a great week running and didn't feel weak at all and, since then, I've done ok running with that in mind.
The only counter I have to the articles you'd posted is the Steve Phinney article explaining in some detail why one doesn't need extra carbs for fuel, just the right amount which, in light of CGM readings I see, makes sense?
Do all of your running group run their BG up and run it down? The links you posted suggest that one doesn't need 5x servings of oatmeal and 2 pieces of toast and juice to run 26 miles, much less 6.
I'm not unhappy at all but I suspect that running up to 200 and down to 70 isn't ideal. Fortunately, you are able to achieve all of your goals while doing that and that's great. I have some HX of cardiac problems on my dad's side so that's a concern and I'm glad you survived your own experience with cardiac events. Another article at http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2007/05/misunderstanding-ukpds-7-is-not-good.html cites the British Medical Journal as suggesting that "Each 1% reduction in updated mean HbA1c was associated with reductions in risk of 21% for any end point related to diabetes . . . No threshold of risk was observed for any end point. [i.e. this stayed true as the A1cs continued to drop] . . .Any reduction in HbA1c is likely to reduce the risk of complications, with the lowest risk being in those with HbA1c values in the normal range (<6.0%)."
This makes sense to me. I'm aware that many people in the medical industry think that higher BG aren't that big of a problem but, if I can run at an amateur level and get closer to normal A1C than I would running up to 200 6x/ week to work out, it seems reasonable to try to achieve a flatter BG result, regardless of what a doctor says. Although my doctor is ok with it, after reviewing my medical records. Although I don't run with her.