I was listening to a podcast from a couple years ago today and they stated that diabetics should eat complex carbohydrates like starches, grains, pasta, rice, ones that take longer to digest, and should avoid refined sugars and fructose like in fruits. Within the last 6 months I have been working on my diet trying to figure out what foods are better for me and it came down to the fewer starches I eat the lower my BG. I discovered this when my 1-hour reading after breakfast was 180-200 which consisted of one piece of toast with peanut butter and jam, and some fruit. I first varied the fruit and found out that bananas are the worse and oranges, grapes, and melon were the best but I still couldn’t figure out why the spike. I then started varying the type of bread; whole-wheat, sourdough, low-carb cardboard, it didn’t matter still the spike. I then tried the same food without the bread substituting a boiled egg and WOW, maybe 125 at the 1-hour and 99 at the 2-hour. I then went on a month of no bread, cut out rice, pasta, potatoes, anything that had complex sugars didn’t pass my lips. My HA1c dropped a 1/2 a point and I no longer have the spikes. Today for lunch I splurged and had a 1/2 cup of Basmati rice, chicken and peas with an apple and BLAM, 210.
So why am I backwards (or was that MD on the podcast confused?). I know that foods affect us differently but so drastically?
Curious to know what others have discovered.
Nah, you’re definitely not a freak. There are a ton of people here that follow a lower/low carb diet. While it’s true that complex carbs are digested slower than refined sugars (they have a lower glycemic index) they still raise your blood sugar, especially if you can’t take insulin to compensate. And the more carbs you eat, the higher the spike. As simple as that. The idea that it’s okay to eat a ton of carbs as long as you stay away from sugar is pretty outdated.
I have been diabetic a long time and I have always been told to eat tons of carbs. This is the way they have always taught new diabetics to eat. Heck, it is still on the ADA’s website! My post meal numbers spike like crazy if I eat a high glycemic meal so I try to pick smarter carbs now. I am not ready to go low carb, I love carbs too much, hahaha! But if I choose smarter carbs like brown rice and broccoli, I can still have carbs I like without a crazy spike. Everyone is different so keep doing what you are doing and experimenting. Check out Jenny’s page here, she gives great info that can help you with the whole carb thing.
Thanks to both of you, although I have been a diagnosed diabetic for nearly 4 years and understand biochemistry some, it still confuses me. My head will explode in 3,2,1…
I second the recommendation of Blood Sugar 101 before your head goes boom. Very messy that. 
Wow, where has this site been for the last 4 years. Started reading some of it this morning and it is good, very informative. Thanks for the tip.
Endocrinologists and CDEs will say that it is normal and expected for a diabetic to spike after meals. If consuming carbs, you really cannot avoid it. =)
I have also read that spikes above 140 lead to complications… what to believe…
I’m Type 1 & eat very low carb. The ADA guidelines still stress a diet that’s too high in carbs for most diabetics to control BG. Because they advocate higher carbs, they correspondingly tout A1cs that are higher than they should be:) Dieticians, nutritionists & most doctors also recommend diets that are too high carb for diabetics. So, we all have gotten the same message over & over until it’s been accepted as fact.
High carb diets have been linked to unhealthy lipid profiles for diabetics & non-diabetics. The high carb/low fat diet appears to be wrong. We could live long healthy lives without ever eating grains, starchy vegetables, beans.
Glycemic Index research hasn’t included diabetics, from the research I’ve seen. My experience has been that high GI or low GI have the pretty much the same effect on my BG. I just stick to low carb for better results.
Hi, I’m a type 1 and do not eat complex carbohydrates in grains (cereal, breads, pastas, rice, refined grains) ,beans, and dairy products. Fruit is the same for me and is way better for my blood sugar! I prefer the lower sugar fruits like berries and melons. I think the complex carbs are harder to digest and require lots of insulin.
I use to eat tons of complex carbs in cereals, breads, and soy but since I stopped it has done wonders for my blood sugar and insulin needs. There’s a name for this diet anyway, it’s basically a “paleolithic diet” because it excludes those complex carbs found in grain and beans because they weren’t around for our ancestors until recently.
So let me get this straight, Gerri & Judith, the ADA et. al. promote complex carbs so that we spend more money on food and insulin? I smell conspiracy… Gerri, you brought up GI index which is very popular in Australia but has not caught on here, what’s the deal? Are they deliberately keeping information from the public? I tried to follow a low GI diet but also discover that is varies with me (I think they actually mention that - YMMV).
Michelle, I love the paleolithic diet idea. Does that differ from Raw foods? Where does vegan fit in there? I also like the low-carb diet. At times I miss potatoes and rice, but give me a big salad with lots of veg an some protein and I am set.
Thanks for all your comment. I am relatively new to Tu so if you have some recommendations for me please pass them on.
Cheers.
Hi Todd,
It’s wonderful that you’ve been able to give up potatoes & rice in favor of salads & protein. Kudos! I’m still amazed about how much of a carb junkie I was & that now I don’t crave them at all.
The ADA gets a lot of funding from pharm companies. More carbs=more meds & insulin. My experience has been that large, powerful organizations & their highly paid leaders become more concerned with their continuing survival than they do advocating for the constituency they allegedly represent. They may not have started out this way, but power/money talks. They become an institution & institutions are painfully slow to change.
I’m not a doctor or a biochemist, but it has never made sense that people with diabetes are advised to eat foods that we can’t handle. All I know is my own experience, which is borne out by others. As soon as I rejected the ADA guidelines, shoved down my throat by my doctors, CDE, diabetic ed class & nurses, I immediately felt better & had better BG. It’s simple. Cut carbs, less insulin (or meds), better control.
I’ve heard various theories about why low carb isn’t promoted, other than the obvious that beliefs are slow to change. One is that our diet has been so carb heavy that people would be unwilling to change & that no one would follow a low carb diet for long. Doctors assume people won’t do this, if they even believe low carb is helpful. Of course, this places the power of our health in the hands of others who gatekeep info & treat us as children assuming what will, can or can’t do. Others, due to incorrect info, believe that low carb is dangerous. I’ve been told by several healthcare professionals that low carb would harm my brain. Welcome to the dark ages:)
My sense is that low GI isn’t a good tool for diabetics. There’s been virtually no reseach that I can find that shows how GI effects diabetics. Slow or fast, carbs hit us hard. Foods that are high carb, regardless of GI, begin to turn to glucose as soon as they’re chewed. You’ve experienced this from your own experimentation. Enzymes in salvia start the process. If certain low GI foods do hit later, in a way this makes it even more difficult for people with Type 1. I don’t want glucose hitting my bloodstream after my injected insulin is already gone.
Really don’t know if GI is being kept from the US public intentionally, or if it’s just slower to catch on. I’ve seen discussions here about GI, so I think it may be more prevalent in the US than it seems.
There appears to be a lot of variables in what constitutes the GI of foods–cooked, uncooked, ripeness/freshness of the food, individual biochemistry on how we each handle particular foods–that make it difficult to really assess GI to begin with. GI is based on averages of how average people process food. Just my two cents, but I think it’s a whole of smoke & mirrors & just the latest diet trend. One thing that bothers me about GI for diabetics is that it helps justify a high carb diet. Hey, it’s low GI, so eat what you want. It doesn’t factor in that a BG spike now, or later, is still a spike.
One of the TuD members (Craig) has written extensively on his success controlling his Type 2 with mostly raw foods. You’d enjoy reading his posts.
Vegan is difficult, if not impossible, to do low carb. It’s carb heavy/lower protein. A person could live eating very low carb because protein eventually turns to glucose, but our bodies have to have a certain amount of protein to survive & vegan protein sources are high carb. As a Type 2, you might be able to do this. Yep, YMMV. Whatever works well for you is the way to go.
I was a vegetarian for decades before being diagnosed. It was so hard for me to begin eating animal protein. I tried being vegetarian again & I just couldn’t handle it without huge doses of insulin. Huge doses means the margin of error of matching insulin to food is correspondingly high. I was high, I was low. My BG was all over the place & I felt like hell.
It makes a lot of sense what you say, but it really pisses me off when companies appear to be one thing and really they have someone else they answer to. I suppose they also have to please the people that pay them.
The only reason I thought that the GI was being withheld is that I had a chat with an Australian and he said that the GI is marked on most foods. That is when I looked into it but during my experiments had contradictory results. So I thought I would define my own Index and now have it in the back of my mind on the foods I can and cannot eat. I really think I feel better when I avoid the spikes at all costs. I am still trying to shed another 10 lbs, the hardest ten pounds to try to get my BMI under 25 (I am now at 26). Not that I agree with the definitions of overweight & obese but I guess I have just challenged myself.It took me 3 years to lose 10 lbs and then 3 months to lose another 20.
Philosophically I am fine with eating animal proteins, but I try to have them a third to a quarter of my total meal. The rest of course will be veg & fruit.
It really sounds like you have done your research as well as your own tests, I truly admire you for that. I see from your profile that you have just recently finished your first year so you must have either had experience with others’ diabetes or you really got busy trying to figure this all out.
Thanks for the comments.
Pisses me off also. Most big organizations–ADA, American Cancer Society, etc. tend to be quite conservative. They’re humungous fund-raising machines & no secret where the majority of their funding comes from & where most of their funding goes. When I was diagnosed, friends & family offered to make donations to the ADA. Told them all no thanks.
I’d have to question how accurate GI values are on packaging because it appears not to be an exact science (from what I’ve read) & of dubious help for diabetics. It’s based on averages, so how valuable can this really be?
Wise to avoid spikes at all costs. No doubt you’ll lose 10 lbs. eating as you are. I don’t agree with definitions of weight & obesity either. One of the healthiest people I know would considered to be quite overweight by these standards.
Good to keep your protein portions pretty consistent from day to day & to eat on as much of a regular schedule as you can. I’ve had to add protein to my diet to gain weight.
I do a lot of reading & research. No other diabetics in my family. My motto is “question authority.”
I’m a T 2 and eat pretty low carb. Any type of processed flour or starch like pasta, rice makes me spike. At trader joes they have sprouted bread with 4 c a slice. I spread almond butter on the toast and sprinkle it with blueberries or half a banana. I get a little spike but am fine 2 hours later. On mornings that I eat eggs and sausage and cheese my 2 hour numbers will be 20-30 points lower than my fasting numbers. Protein does work best for me in the am. I don’t know why the ADA pushes so many complex carbs. I think they want to keep us fat and medicated. A multigrain bagel has somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 carbs. I try to keep most meals in the range of 10-25 carbs. On another note I have found if I don’t eat anything in the morning my bg will go up 50 or 60 points. So its not just carbs that cause spikes.
That is a crack up, Jeannie, “keep us fat and medicated”. Have you spoken with anyone at the ADA forums about this? I hung around there for a while but there seemed to be too many people, I prefer a smaller party.
I think the no-food spike is a result of a glucose dump from your liver. I believe it is the same thing as the Dawn Phenomenon or the Somogyi Effect (.
Lately I have been making an Egg-bake. I make it on Sundays and heat/eat it all week. Eggs, sausage, cheese, peppers, onions, garlic, tomato, brocolli - don’t know the carb value but a 2" square is filling and I get no real spike from it. I usually have a bit of fruit and peanut butter also (remember I do no bread:)
Glad to know that if I am a freak, I have friends. Thanks for the comments.
Jeanne, I’m Type 1. If I don’t eat breakfast as soon after waking up, BG soars like a bird. I definitely have the ever fun dawn phenonmenon & eat protein for breakfast. Fat & medicated–agree:) We’re foi gras for them–the goose laying the golden eggs $$$.
Todd, Your Egg-bake sounds delicious!
So, Gerri, as a T1 you must not be on a pump since that would regulate your night time, right? Have you considered it? My Endo says it is just a matter of time until I am on insulin so I am curious. Most T2s that go to insulin say they feel better and have a more even BG, though you have to worry about lows.
The egg-bake takes about 15 min to prepare & about 40 min to bake then I am set for the week. No one else in the family likes it so sometime I put a little spice in it. It is a good way to start the day.
Yes, I’m not on a pump. I take basal insulin at night (Levemir) to control dawn phenon & another dose of basal in the morning to keep day BG stable. A pump doesn’t have any advantages over injections for this. Guess I’m a freak in that I have no interest in a pump. The additional expense for supplies is one reason & I also can’t stand the thought of something attached me. There are mechanical failures with pumps & as well as problems with injection sites, scar tissue & a host of other issues. Know most everyone who has one loves it, but studies show that people who have good control before pumping don’t show improvement with a pump. My personal theory, & don’t quote me on this, is that many people never counted carbs & matched this to insulin before pumping. It’s a must with a pump. Maybe if they were consistent about counting carbs & knowing thier insulin:carb ratio previously, they would have had better control with injections & it’s the pump that gets the credit:) One thing that’s great about a pump that you can’t duplicate with injections is being able to turn your basal insulin off. This is wonderful for exercising to prevent lows. I eat low carb & don’t take much insulin as a result. Some people on pumps can overdo eating & carbs because they push a button to get more insulin. More carbs=more insulin=more weight gain=more insulin resistance. It can be a vicious cycle.
If I was Type 2, I’d take insulin to save my remaining beta cells & to avoid the side-effects of Type 2 meds. Lows are no fun, but small insulin doses, testing frequently & being careful can prevent most lows. Most Type 2s start out with just slow acting basal insulin before they go to bolus, rapid acting before meals. Whatever it takes to keep BG in the near normal range is worth exploring.
I guess I never thought of pumps in that way. I have a couple students who are on pumps and they are continually messing with them. I guess I thought that by having the pump they “do the work” for you, but I guess that is not true. You still have to push the buttons at the right time. Injections give you the control, sounds right. So, in your experience, those that have real good control & discipline do not need to go to a pump. Do pumps have basal or bolus insulin? I would think the latter since they need a rapid adjustment. Maybe a mixture or both. Just guessing.
As far as T2 meds, I am only on Metformin now and have been for over 3 years. I tried to do it with diet & exercise at first but was too inexperienced, I may be able to do it now. I have to finish my weight loss therapy and get some stablization. My GP put me on Glipizide about a year & a half which I took as prescribed. It stimulates the beta cells to produce more insulin. After a while of taking it and hitting a few sub-70 lows, I decided to take myself off. I do not have much life left with the old betas so why overwork them now. The drug did not do much for my HA1c, yea lowered it some, and it did not make me feel any better, probably worse. It also caused me to require more carbs which equals more weight. So now I am only on Metformin although I do take a statin for cholesterol reduction. The Dr. also prescribed aspirin but I read that it really doesn’t do anything for T2s so I took myself off that. They told me from the beginning that I am in charge of my diabetes, that I should build a team around me, so if I do not like the recommendations, I refuse them. I’m the boss of me!
Thanks for the lesson on the T1 side. I am going to talk to my Endo about the possiblity of adding a basal and removing the metformin. I am not just basing that decision on our conversation, but also on research I am running across.
Enjoy your Saturday.