I think we are making too many assumptions about the developers.
The Safari on Monterey (latest version) is the same version as the one on Catalina (@Laddie’s version). According to Wikipedia, it is the same version on all of them. I am not on my iMac, running Monterey, at the moment, but it is quite likely that I verified the site worked in Safari. and it is running fine on mine in Safari on my iPad Pro. Browsers use different rendering engines, Chromium for Chrome/Edge, Gecko for Firefox, but all iOS browsers use the WebKit rendering engine.
This is not to say that there are not problems, but I don’t see a clear issue with the developers, probably like yourself, I have worked in tech for a very long time, and certainly have experienced issues that seemed like site/system issues, but were in fact related to my own desktop configuration. I’ve also had edge cases that did not make sense until I dug into the code.
You can try to get the moderators involved, and have them raises the concern to the dev team, and that team can let us know what is going on.
This website is actually just using a service for the form by the company “Discourse”.
Discourse also list what browsers they support here:
Discourse is designed for the next 10 years of the Internet, so the minimum browser requirements are high.
Discourse supports the latest, stable releases of all major browsers and platforms:
Microsoft Edge
Google Chrome
Mozilla Firefox
Apple Safari
Additionally, we aim to support Safari on iOS 12.5+ until January 2023 (Discourse 3.0).
Apple provides software updates for its products for around 7 years (sometimes varies).
You can see a list of Safari version and when they stopped being supported here
So tudiabetes has a few options if they desired.
Find new software for this forum that supports older unsupported versions of Safari
Ask Discourse to support old Safari even if Apple isn’t
Ask Apple to resume support for Safari and hope Discourse does the same.
I’m not saying its fair or right but this is common practice for websites. It takes a lot of time and resources to support older browsers. At a certain point the number of people using them is low. It’s often hard to justify spending more time/money supporting old software for a very small % of users.
No one has to buy new devices, they just have to accept over time more websites will not work properly for them.
It might not be a perfect analogy but if you drive a really old car you might have less options to get it repair. Part manufactures will stop making those parts and move on to new ones that are more profitable. The same goes for mechanics training on newer more common vehicles.
My Safari is 13.0.3 so technically it should still be supported. But obviously TuDiabetes doesn’t work on my Safari and I mostly just say “c’est la vie.” I am fine with Chrome and on my iPad.
As @ChrisP notes, the TUD Forum is on the Discourse platform, which is very widely used. They do have a discussion forum of their own where you can address questions like this one. I haven’t searched but it may be that others have run into similar issues (usually if you have a problem on the internet, you’re not the only one). Might be worth a look:
I checked there and it seems to be an unresolved problem for another user of Safari 13.0.3. For me it is not worth trying to investigate this any further since TuDiabetes is my only problem and I can use my iPad or Chrome.
Looks like Apple stopped supporting 13.0.3 in 2020 or earlier.
Looking at the source code of this website forum.tudiabetes.org it looks like the site is running Discourse version 2.9.0.beta4
If that is the case it might be possible for us to upgrade to version 3 and get older safari working again.
It’s possible upgrading versions could cause other problems. It might require a web developer to work through some compatibility issues with the new version to get the site working/displaying correctly.
Since tudiabetes is free it might be an issue of having funds/need to get this upgrade done. Or maybe the maintainers of the site haven’t heard any complaints yet and not prioritized upgrading their discourse version.
The organization does have a dedicated developer for this kind of stuff though I don’t have direct contact with them. I can say that I do see notices that Discourse has updated, so that’s part of the process. But that’s mostly been minor-version updates. A major version update is a different kettle of fish, and I don’t know exactly what the TUD process is around that, but it I suspect if there’s a bottleneck it’s more about person hours for research and testing than money per se.
Disclosure: I was in web dev for 20 years before retiring in 2020 (thanks covid!)
@Laddie - I can tell you want to get out of this thread, but it looks like you can run a newer version of Safari, even though you are still running Catalina. You’ve written that you are running Safari 13.0.3 on Catalina, but Wikipedia documentation has the latest Safari version as 15.4, and that is compatible with your OS version. The choice would be to upgrade Safari, unless of course I have grossly misunderstood the situation.
It is odd to me that there is no one at tuD who seems interested, and it is up to the forum readers to figure out what the problem is? (Thanks for the link to discourse DrBB)
This fix has been implemented at Discourse for their hosted platforms, but presumably tuD must host their database elsewhere? And it looks like Discourse has not done a release that includes this fix yet (fix dated May 13 but last beta build April 14). Once again, I think it is up to tuD to ask for a beta build that includes this fix, if there is anyone at tuD who knows how to do this. I’m not a member of the Discourse platform and don’t really think this is or should be my job.
It seems to me that the root problem here is that tuD is taking beta releases without carefully testing them first. Beta releases are by definition not well tested, so if you run beta releases you take on the testing responsibility yourself. If tuD stayed with released code they would not have hit this issue, and presumably this is not the first or last time something like this will happen.
Relevant links to see what has happened for anyone interested in the details:
I probably don’t want to take the risk of updating Safari since I have no problems with other websites. Actually I periodically have memory issues but nothing bad happens. Some day the computer will die but I back it up regularly and shouldn’t lose much of substance. Actually if I get a new laptop, I may start from scratch and not load all of my old documents, etc. on it. Except for the bigger screen and better scanning and printing capabilities, I’m not sure that I even need a laptop anymore since we have relatively a newish Windows desktop.
If you read my post, you’ll see that there is no need for you to update anything. This is a tuD issue, due to them running a buggy beta version of the forum software. TuD simply needs to either get a fixed beta version installed, or run a released version of the forum software.
@Laddie - It is your choice to run older software, but personally it doesn’t make much sense. A newer browser should run everything the old browser can run, in fact more likely as you can see with this forum, plus it will be more secure.
I checked on updates and there was an update to Catalina. My laptop cannot do any of the newer Mac OS. This update also updated my Safari to 13.1.3 from 13.0.3. And guess what?! TuDiabetes now works on my Mac on Safari.
So once again, thanks to you and everyone else for your advice and expertise.
Wow. @Laddie it is nice that you were able to upgrade and get access to the forum. But this is not all about you. You are not the only person who is unable to access the TuD forum. And there are people with older iphones and ipads who cannot upgrade to a newer version, and these people are therefore STILL unable to access the forum. And with no indication of WHY - all they get is a blank screen when trying to open the forum.
@JamesIgoe you claim to be a software developer, and you’ve clearly been in this thread since I posted my last update, but you have no response? Did you understand what I wrote?
Let me spell it out again, and hopefully some other software knowledgeable person will take some interest. @ChrisP , @DrBB what do you think?
Plainly stated, the reason people running older versions of iOS get a blank screen on the tuD forum is that there is a KNOWN BUG in the discourse code. See my previous post for links to a description and a fix. The internal discussion at discourse talks about how damaging this bug is, since it does not give any indication to the user of why the failure has occurred - it should at least state that the forum cannot be displayed because the browser is not supported.
Discourse has fixed the bug, and all TuD needs to do to get this fix is to ASK DISCOURSE for it. I’m not an admin here, so I can’t ask for or install the fix, but surely someone other than me who is also a software developer can understand WHY TuD should do this?
Finally, maybe TuD needs to have a discussion about whether or not TuD should be running Beta Level software for their forum. It is generally NOT wise to do this. Beta software is currently blocking user access to the forum, and access for those users has been blocked for more than a month already. Experience as a software developer has proven to me that this will not be the last time that tuD will be bitten by running poorly tested Beta level software.
@Jag1 - I didn’t want to engage with you on this topic, and decided that it wasn’t a good use of my time when it started feeling like the abyss of argument. Besides, in my world, asking someone to upgrade their software is not unreasonable…
As for my claims to be a software developer, you can look here, James Igoe | LinkedIn. I only list about 10 years of work, but have been working in tech for almost 30 years. Most of the prior experience and skills, much of it at major international banks, as a developer, project manager, lead, or in support, are left off the resume.
As mentioned, you might want to try and engage the developer…
They do have presence on social media, and that might be a more effective avenue for complaint:
Even better, “In the event of a critical issue or urgent matter affecting this site, please contact us at forums@beyondtype1.org.”, also, from the About page.
This is a forum that I do not own or administer. As a forum, I would have hoped that other people who are competent to understand the problem that the forum is experiencing would chime in and say words to the effect of “Yes, this is a problem, and a simple solution has been identified, and that fix should be implemented so the users who are blocked will once again be able to access the forum”.
@JamesIgoe@ChrisP@DrBB Is it really the case that the three of you, who are competent to understand this issue, are all unwilling to look at some of the links I cited? I really don’t understand that. I am looking for buy-in here. I think that it is critical, because I am not a frequent user of this platform. Anybody I would send any email to is not going to understand the issue and will probably assume there is nothing worth looking at. But a group of four engineers who understand the problem, and all say there is a problem that should be addressed, that has weight to it.
But instead I am being accused of “an abyss of argument”? What? I just want people who don’t have the money to own new hardware to be able to get on the forum. Instead, the attitude seems to be that if some reader doesn’t have the money to upgrade to the latest hardware, then tough luck, use a different forum. I hate to say it, but that seems VERY elitist to me.
All I am asking for is a little software knowledge and thought. I can’t believe I can’t get any help here from people who have that knowledge. @mohe0001 can you help me out?
As a lowly Mod I don’t have any kind of technical access to the site, but I have brought the issue/this thread to the attention of staff and the head admin can bring it to the TUD developer.
Thank you, that is all I was looking for. You may be a lowly mod, but I am an even lower than low, lowly user. I’m sure your input will have much more weight than mine. Thanks again.
@Jag1 - I was very cautious to frame my response in a non-accusatory way, stating that I stopped responding “when it started feeling like the abyss of argument.” It is not you, and I simply felt any response was simply headed down the wrong path, for me.
Also, for someone who seems to be slighted, you don’t seem to care that you implied I was not in my professed technical role or not competent, i.e., that “you claim to be a software developer”. Even in this forum, we can see different developer roles, front-end, full-stack, device, etc., and our background and histories will lead to different responses on how to solve a problem.
One of the values of a diversity of opinion is that it can often solve new problems better than having a room of experts, since there are many points of view, a variety of experience. My response isn’t yours. Upgrading software versions is reasonable, and if I was interested in delving further, I’d have contacted the developer, as I suggested.
Even when supporting development, I often have 2 tracks, solve the immediate ‘production’ problem, reducing pressure and allowing work to continue, then following up with the long term solution.
You retired because of covid, @DrBB? I suspect that’s what happened to the entire US workforce. Things aren’t perfect anymore, that’s just how it is because of the transitions to younger/fewer workers.
