Community

Community
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Continuing the discussion from Type 1, Carnivore & Exercise:

Community

Every successful community explicitly agrees about the fundamental shared values that bind them together. For our community, it is the idea that no person with diabetes should ever feel alone. Membership in this community is based on the central fact that we all live with diabetes or that we love someone who lives with diabetes.

That core element of our community forms the essential basis on which we interact.

Beyond that primary kernel there exist numerous points we may or may not share with other members. Whether we treat our diabetes with pills or one of the many formulations of insulin and whether we deliver that inulin via a syringe, pen, or insulin pump is secondary to our basis for community.

What type of exercise that we use can form a connection to other members, but it is not essential. The way of eating, as important as it is to metabolic health, remains secondary to the primary project.

If a community is to remain healthy and functioning, its membership must remain cognizant of the fact: we are here to support each other simply as human beings who the universe has capriciously bestowed the unwanted metabolic dysfunction that is diabetes.

All the secondary choices that are made are subjective and based on opinion. I’ve read many comments that attest to the uniqueness of each person. It serves us well to keep that value in mind. The ultimate “truth” has many facets and my reality does not disprove yours. To judge another community member over a different choice they make is not only short-sighted but leads to community disfunction and needless tension.

We need to respect other members to make decisions about medication, insulin, different insulin delivery methods, styles of eating and how to monitor blood glucose levels, to name a few. That’s not to say that we can’t express our individual opinions about these secondary issues. Those discussions can provide some important education. But that must be done with respect and done carefully to avoid insulting or marginalizing another member.

I write these high-minded statements with the full recognition that I am a flawed human being. I have not always acted with these values fully in mind. For that, I seek the community’s forgiveness. I do recognize that these ideal values I write about, however, would help us all to feel better about our interactions here.

Many of you know that I suffered a major health set-back seven months ago. The support that this community provided took some of edge off my struggle. Your words of moral support meant a lot to me. I would like to think that others could feel that when life hits a point of crisis.

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Well said @Terry4

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I re-read the entire thread from the beginning. Nobody was rude or disrespectful to her. Some people had a different opinion. There was some debate, but nobody was hateful about it.

Don’t overlook the fact that her very FIRST post on the thread asked this question:

So she got a wide range of answers.

And eventually all of that led to these comments from her:

She is calling @Marilyn6’s diet choice an amusing diversion, a lark. Didn’t really want to hear about it, just having fun with it at Marilyn’s expense. Wow. I feel bad for Marilyn, not Samantha.

And this:

I think she was more insulting than anyone else on that whole thread.

Doesn’t really sound like she wanted an answer to “Do I need to adjust my diet differently?”

Sorry her feelings got hurt, but I don’t think the people who tried to engage with her on that thread should be chastised.

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So much of communication goes beyond the words being used: it is conveyed by tone, context, timing, inflection.
It’s very easy as a reader to incorrectly infer someone’s meaning.
There is value in being charitable in interpretation. Assume that the other means well. In the end, if they don’t, it’s on them.

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I’ve read your remarks and I’d like to engage but this is the wrong thread. I will answer you if you post to the other thread or start a new topic. This thread is reserved for comments about the more general topic of community.

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Well Terry, at this point I am feeling pretty let down by the community I have been part of for the past several years. Two people supported me after a new visitor made some rude remarks about what I posted. I was trying to help her, by just telling her to watch her lipids. A very low carb diet is great for folks whose lipids stay normal like Dr Bernstein’s did, but can be harmful for some of us whose LDL climbs too much. My experiences are nothing to ignore just because they are critical of the diet.

I wish someone had done me the kindness of warning me when mine were climbing. Someone with experience of what happened to them. I would be more than grateful for warnings from people who had very bad experiences with the Mastering Diabetes diet. I would
consider it very useful information. No diet is perfect and all ways of eating can cause harm to certain people.

I felt awful yesterday about this and reread my comments several times. I still fail to see what I said that was wrong. I really don’t need this stress. I thought we came here to share experiences of what did and didn’t work for us as we deal with this difficult condition. I thought that was what community was all about.

Thanks for the two people who have supported me. I appreciated it very much.

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Marilyn, thanks for your response; tying it to the community makes it possible for me to respond. It is difficult to segregate the sense of community from the polarizing topic of diet choices.

Your feeling disrespected by the new member is understandable. I thought your comments leading up to the point of where things went wrong were calibrated and respectful. I get where you’re coming from.

Please understand that the topic of diet and diabetes is fraught. I have held back many comments when you and others posted with different views. As I said in this post, my reality does not disprove yours. The truth has many facets, it all rests on your perspective.

I granted the original poster wide latitude (perhaps too much) with her comments due to her short time since diagnosis and she just became a member of TuD.

I felt that this situation was similar to an event that you are hosting. You’re engaged in a conversation with a long time friend and a person who is new to the group. The new person makes a comment, provoked in part by your friend, that crosses the line. Awkward.

I think a good case can be made that in the long run, giving the newcomer the benefit of doubt due to their inexperience, can lead to a much better outcome. If you immediately side with your long-time friend, you probably write off the new person.

It’s complicated and I’m the first person to admit that I am not proficient with social dynamics.

I’ll admit that my dietary bias altered my perceptions. I have avoided posting much about my dietary story in recent times but I can assure you that my beliefs are just as strong as yours. I have gained considerable respect for the carnivore diet but I perceive that many people vehemently oppose this choice with a passion that precludes any discussion.

I am not a carnivore as I do eat some veggies and limited fruit but I include animal products at every meal. But that is my choice and people who choose otherwise should not feel threatened.

Getting back to the community aspect, I admire your sense of wanting to warn others to put your personal experience to good use. But you need to be aware that every person is not amenable to that warning. If you offer advice at the wrong time to someone who is not interested, the effort is not received as intended. That’s my perception of this current situation; take what you want, if anything, and leave the rest.

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I think we all need to take a deep breath and not overthink or take personally what went wrong with the Carnivore and Exercise thread. Occasionally, even with the best intentions, a thread goes off the rails for whatever reason. Just like occasionally, no good deed goes unpunished. That thread was launched the week before our US Thanksgiving, and many of us on this forum were scrambling under the stress of travel requirements, food preparations, hosting others, frayed nerves, etc. Marilyn6 certainly took 1 for the team on this one and it was our bad to not give her more support. As much as I would not like to see another thread sour in the future, the holidays are always a tough time and duress especially given the current economy and state of affairs, so I am prepared to cut posters an exceptional amount of slack.

Marilyn, I hope for your own sanity, if for no other reason, you can let this escape your mind, relax and enjoy your family for the holiday season. I read all your posts and sincerely appreciate every one of them; even if sometimes I am not in total agreement that your methods can enhance my life, I still truly appreciate your point of view. I also know that you have a huge following here and we all look forward to hearing from you very soon.

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Thanks to both Terry and CJ. and thanks for the private messages that I have received from others. I appreciate them very much. From now on I will try not to talk so much about my way of eating, unless I am asked or just mention it in passing. Both diets have made such an impact on my life, after years of eating whatever I wanted, that it is hard for me not to share my views.

Thanks CJ for your very kind words. Your post brought me to tears.

Marilyn

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Well, Marilyn, that’s your choice, but nobody’s complaining. We all learn from one another. :heart_eyes:

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Thanks Luis. You are always such a positive force.

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It’s hard to discern sometimes where a topic goes off the rails, that is the case here.

Feelings can be hurt when someone feels that their morals have been questioned. It appears to me that the OP felt disrespected and lashed out.

Here’s the rub, no one in the topic disrespected her, @Marilyn6 did not disrespect the OP, in fact she was very respectful, she made a case for why a plant-based diet works for her. She did not do so based on moral observations.

After defending @Marilyn6 I feel I must also defend the OP. I myself being a meat eater often feel offended by vegan/vegetarian zealots who question my morality because I eat meat. If someone makes the vegan choice for moral reasons, I respect that, but I am at peace with my omnivore diet. Please don’t disrespect my choices.

Vegan/Vegetarian zealots that preach the immorality of meat consumption are very vocal about their choice, their mantra seems to be designed to shame non-believers into submission. To say the least it taxes my patience. perhaps it does the same to the OP.

It is clear that the OP mistook @Marilyn6’s well-meant advice. She was respectful until she felt dis-respected herself.

Please @Marilyn6 please continue to be you, this was not your fault, and it was not the OP’s fault. It was just a misunderstanding.

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Thanks Gary. I don’t consider myself a zealot. We went to my son and daughter-in-law’s for Thanksgiving. My son, a chef, cooked a turkey as I knew that he would. He and his wife made vegan sides for me. I also took a couple of sides which helped me stick more to my way of eating. We pay our son to fill our freezers for us with vegetarian food that he makes for us. Everybody is happy.

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Neither do I.

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I hope not. I think this is an important topic that we diabetics often forget about. We become so focused on our last or next five minute BG reading, that we can forget to think about the bigger picture of long term health and the part that diet and exercise can play in it.

Being healthy as we age certainly requires us to manage our BGs, but there is clearly more to it than that. Non-diabetics have perfect BG 24x7, yet diet and exercise is obviously important to their long term health as well. Reminding us to step back and think about that now and then is in my opinion absolutely a good thing.

Or to put it another way, you go girl!

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Thank-you Jag1!

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Well-written, Terry. (And I should know since I taught technical business writing and written communication for over 30 years!) I love this community because it lets me learn about advancements in diabetic care and be warned of something that may affect my health or well-being. We all can share what has or has not worked for us. We can vent our frustrations, console one another, learn from one another, debate important topics, be encouraged to try new ways of eating, exercising, or living, and, occasionally, even laugh together.

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Thank-you for the compliment, Sherry Ann. Coming from a writing instructor means a lot to me! Written communication is dicey business. I appreciate that you have been able to receive my message and decode it as it was intended. I am glad that you value in this community!

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Food is such a contentious topic. I feel like it’s less contentious on this forum than it is having conversations with people in person. People have REALLY strong emotional baggage related to diet and food consumption. I’ve never understood why, but I have been thinking about it lately because of the holidays. I try to avoid these conversations in person. There’s a tendency for people to single me out and put me on the spot and judge me over what I eat. It irritates me when non-diabetics do that.

Why does it sometimes feel like non-diabetics are so ‘micromanage-y’ about what they eat (and what other people eat)? Sometimes I feel like non-diabetics are even more prone to micromanaging what they eat. Sometimes they micromanage more than I do and that makes me suspicious. Why would someone do that by choice? There must be something inherent in people that makes nutrition so riddled with emotional baggage, shame, and judgement. It feels petty. Food conversations are one of the worst things about diabetes and I’m glad you all are around to field those questions. I skipped that thread entirely because it feels like being lured into a mousetrap - a mousetrap filled with negative emotions. Thanks to those of you who bravely stepped right into the conversation. I haven’t the wherewithal.

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Reading other posts, I think food is associated with disgust, which is associated with disease. Illness and sin have an association. Somehow these things might all intersect in some way during discussions of nutrition that leads to contention.

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