I've been tired most of the time since I was diagnosed almost 10 years ago, even when my blood tests show great results, and without any complications other than migraines when my BG drops too low. I've been hearing people talking about how much energy a vegetarian diet can give people, so I decided to go semi-vegetarian about a month ago, to see how it would affect me.
The results have been interesting, to say the least. My weight is still stable at 73 kg (160 lbs). My daily insulin dose has dropped from an average of 50 units to 38 units. I eat about 200 grams (7 oz.) of meat a week now from about 100+ grams (~4 oz.) a day before. I've upped my intake of fruit (mostly bananas) and root vegetables, with no increase in excersise.
I keep waking up with low BG now, even after reducing the basal dose on my pump, and I don't need to bolus much anymore after eating. My largest boluses come after eating bread, but are still only 3 - 5 units for each meal. I almost never need to bolus after eating fruits anymore even though a banana can contain up to 20 grams of carbs. That used to mean 1 - 2 units of insulin for each banana!
I don't know if I'm experiencing the placebo effect, but I do subjectively feel better as well, when my BG isn't low, mind you! :) Has anyone had any similar experiences with a mostly plant based diet? It's like I'm learning to know my body and disease all over again!
Interesting post, Lemonz. My experience is limited to meat ve fish for dinner. If I eat fish my bloodsugar is much more stable over night and might even get low. With meat it´s opposite. In my case I think it´s because fish is easier to digest. Really just a reply to make sure I follow the discussion :)
Yea, I heard fish is the way to go! Especially wild salmon or just any fish will do. Fish has Omega 3 6 9 oils and such and is easier to digest. I eat steak too because it's often on sale and I like it! I lean toward the green and red and yellow non-starchy veggies (and tons of leafy greens!)
BTW, I am T2 and I don't use insulin.
I have also read maybe bananas aren't so good for diabetics. I'm recently dx'd so I may be wrong and they could be just fine for you though.
If you go for fish only, you can call yourself an "Aquatarian" LOL! ;)
How many calories RU eating? How many Carbs? How much fat?
I lived and worked in a vegetarian community for many years and most of my friends and co-workers where constantly eating in order to keep their energy levels up. These where blue collar workers, I don't think it takes much energy to sit in front of a computer but if your laying bricks or chopping wood, your going to run out of steam fast. If you stop eating meat you will need to feed on small amounts of carbs every few hours or switch to a fat based diet...which could be unhealthy if it's not well managed...you go low at night because your body is running out of steam and your IOB is too high....I practically shut my basal off at 12:am and do not turn it back up until 4am....yes some days my BG is above my morning set point but it takes the worry out of going to sleep....JMHO
I was vegetarian even before diagnosis, so I can't really give you much of a before/after overall. But a couple months ago, I dropped most dairy out of my meals, added way more vegetables, and have been even more stable and feeling better since then. I do find that all the fiber in the veg seems to help. If it's a meal not quite so high in fiber I have to add a healthy fat (like sunflower seeds) to keep the moderate carbs from spiking. In any case, it's great that it's working for you!
Congrats. Animal fat (saturated fat) intake has been associated with increased insulin resistance (for example LINK), so that could be why you have noticed that effect. It is also possible that you are now eating fewer calories and losing weight (though you say you're the same weight?), which can also have a big effect on insulin sensitivity.
There is evidence out there that large protein loads can increase glucagon levels for 6-8 hours after meals and that increase intake of saturated fat can cause insulin resistance for 4-6 hours. To manage this people commonly have to add extra insulin or use the combination/dual wave bolus. I imagine the reason you are seeing lower numbers is due to a reduction in saturated fat intake from animal products and an increase in fiber. Also keep in mind that your basal rate may be too high and could be causing the lows and may be the reason why you boluses are so low. Take a look at your total daily dose (TDD) and see if basal insulin each day is about the same as the bolus insulin you use. The split should be between 50/50 or 60/40 basal/bolus to find the most consistent results.
Protein has no sugars which will effect you in any meaningful manner with regarding lowering your overall average(s) or lowering your numbers.
Any fruit, bread, rice, corn, carrot (cooked), dessert, foods with high carb/caloric amounts will raise your sugars. Large or unmonitored quantities of any foods will raise you. If you know what a single portion of ANY food is, and you know how many portions of anything which you eat... you can make informed decisions... barter or trade as needed.
Protein & fat when added to a bread/sugar heavy meal will extend the absorption, the breakdown of your meal, but breakdown will occur eventually.
If you wish to have a eating habit of all plants, all protein, whatever you eat will not provide the nutrients you need to remain healthy. You must have some carbs, some breads, foods with energy that you use to fuel your life.
Be very careful with eating habits which exclude excessively...
Protein has no sugars which will effect you in any meaningful manner with regarding lowering your overall average(s) or lowering your numbers.
According to Ginger Vieira s book "Your diabetes science experiment", page 135, "Half of the grams of "complete protein" over 20 grams will convert into glucose, which should be counted in the total carbohydrates."…."Example: If a 12-ounce filet mignon has about 90 grams of protein, there are 70 grams of protein over 20. Therefore, 50% of 70 grams is 35 grams of added glucose to the total carbohydrates of the meal."
My experience is that the rough guide given by Ginger is consistent with others. The Total Available Glucose approach (TAG Group) and Dr. B recommends counting 50% of protein grams as carbs. That being said, I think things are a bit more complicated. I actually believe that up to the first 25g or so of protein in a meal may be taken up directly as protein by your body before this conversion process starts (gluconeogenesis).
Personally, I've don't believe that meat or protein itself leads to higher blood sugars. High protein meals can lead to improperly timed and dose insulin which can lead to degraded control since meat can take 3-5 hours to digest, long after the faster rapid insulin's have worn off. And another thing that most people don't count properly is total calories, since meat is such a dense source of nutrients, dropping meat from you diet can dramatically reduce calories without having the appearance of any change in the volume of food.
I'm glad that some may find reducing meat leads to improved blood sugar control, but I know that if I replace reduced meat with fruit and carbs I'll have bad outcomes.
A great assortment of responses. They demonstrate how diabolically whimsical this scourge is. For instance, I eat very low-carb, but after 7 years, have learned I can fool around with the "when" of the carbs. I only eat about 3 oz of meat/day now, usually because it is easiest. I have learned that, while I don't miss the meat because I find other protein sources satisfying, I couldn't possibly go vegan because I am a cheesehead looney!
I think we all have to figure out individually, not just how much protein we need, but also when during the day we need it....Blessings...Judith in Portland
I'm used to eating a lot of fish, and I've experienced the same as you. I used to go low every night if I injected any insulin with the meal, for the potatoes or whatever. Now I usually don't take any insulin if I eat fish. :)
The type of fish I currently eat the most of is Atlantic Mackerel. I don't think I can ever give up fish completely. :)
You probably have heard that bananas aren't good for diabetics. I was told the same when I was dx'd. I was told to not eat more than 3 fruits a day. I followed this principle for many years, but I really don't understand the reasoning behind it. Now I think more in the direction: "If I crave sugar, fruits are better than sweets". :) I know I will "fall off the wagon" if I don't get a somewhat large amount carbs in my diet. At least fruits have nutrients in them compared to processed things. :) Also, I haven't noticed a huge spike in my BG from eating fruits - I think it might have to do with the "bulk" fruits contain (I become full quite quickly from eating fruits).
I eat between 1800 and 2000 calories a day. My weight is stable so I figure it's enough - I could be wrong though. I'm a student, so I don't move much. :) I haven't made an analysis of my meals yet, but I can tell you that I eat very low levels of fat, and high levels of carbs. I cut back on most added fats when I was dx'd, and have stuck with that ever since.
I have cut back on my basal insulin again. Now I've dropped 20 units (from 50) from my pre semi-vegetarian diet, and my lows have mostly come under control.
I actually feel great at the moment, so I will continue to see how things will progress. :)
Thanks. I think I'm more sensitive to insulin now, as my 10 grams of carbs for every unit of insulin doesn't work anymore. I haven't worked out my new insulin to carb yet, but I usually just take around 2 - 3 units off my existing ratio - that seems to work on most occasions.
My weight is the same at 73 kg (160 lbs). I've always been on the skinny side, so I can't really afford to lose weight. My BMI is around 20.
I checked my TDD, and the spilt is around 80/20... Even after reducing my basal dose with 5 units already. I think I will make a new profile on my pump where I will test a consistent dose throughout the day, compared to a higher dose a night.
I've never been one for extremes. I still eat fish and meat on occasion - at least once a week. Also, I eat bread in between meals, so I don't become hungry.
My reasoning is that I didn't feel all that great before, so it would be foolish for me to continue doing what I was doing, and expecting different results. I also think a modern Western diet has excessive amounts of meat in it (mine included), which is why I chose to reduce my meat intake. :)
I get very high on salmon :) but I low carb :) it is very fat and lot's of protein :) bad combo if you low carb - takes ages for me to digest because of all fat. :)
