Do Nothing Bolus?

Been on Omnipod for a couple of years now, and it’s been a mostly great experience. I have a general insulin/pumping question-- there are times where I bolus a correction, esp. in the morning, where it seems like the insulin does nothing.

I generally eat a very low carb diet, but when I don’t I notice that my body tends to dump glucose overnight (usually shortly after midnight). Typically I adjust my basal rate to cover this effect. Last night I didn’t and I bolus’d to get my blood sugar down from the 160’s as soon as I woke. Two and a half hours later (my typical duration for insulin action), my blood sugar is still sitting in the 160’s as if I hadn’t taken any insulin. I’ve had nothing to eat, and a single cup of black coffee.

Anyone else have any experiences like this, or tips/thoughts to share? It’s frustrating and would love to figure it out. Thanks in advance for replies!

absolutely FRUSTRATING. I’m going through this right now. It’s 10AM. I woke up at 7:30 witha 186. I took a bolus calculated to correct my bg to around 100, and read the Sunday papers until my husband got up. At 9:15 I was 218. took a rage bolus. waited another 30 minutes. 219. I had wanted a piece of toast with my breakfast, I ended up just having scrambled eggs.

no idea what the problem is. hope yours comes down soon.

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You are making a mistake when you think that carb intake and insulin onset/duration is a linear calculation. There are so many variables involved that it is incalculable. Thankfully most often our linear calculations work ok.

It’s highly likely that sometime in the next few hours your Bg will crash. But maybe not.

I have taken 300 units of novolog in one day to cover less than 30g of carbs. And my Bg did not get under 200. Likewise, I have taken less than 20 units of novolog and eaten 400g of carbs in a day and Bg didn’t get over 70. Go figure.

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I’m on a pump, but not he OmniPod. If I have two high readings in a row for “no reason” I change my pump site. It just happened to me last night, actually. After dinner my blood sugar shot up to about 14 mmol/L (250 mg/dl) and stayed there. After the first correction didn’t work, I did an injection with a pen, and after that didn’t work, I changed out my pump site and did two “extra” corrections on top of what my pump recommended (not recommended, though, as that could have caused lows). It’s now morning and I’m still at about 10.5 mmol/L (195 mg/dl) and just did another site change. But often the first couple of steps will take care of it.

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Do you use a CGM? When I dump glucose overnight my numbers continuously rise until I bolus after waking. Sometimes I rise quickly after waking up so if I am at 160 I could actually be at 180 or above before the insulin kicks in. This could be why it looks like your insulin didn’t do anything.

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When a non-D hears about my diabetes, they will often think many injections every day is the worst of diabetes. It’s your frustrating story, however, that typifies what most of us with diabetes see as the hard part of diabetes. You play by the rules, do everything right (or almost everything right) and you’re rewarded with out-of-range BGs and a puzzle.

As you well know, diabetes is not simply the interaction of insulin with glucose. There are many other factors that drive any outcome. I suspect that the main driver of your trouble is morning insulin resistance. Perhaps you need to change your basal profile instead of relying on a temp basal fix.

Insulin pump settings are not a set-it-and-forget-it scenario for most of us. Your body changes from day to day and month to month. Changing metabolic needs are not an exception but a rule. This forms the thesis of an interesting book published a few years ago, Sugar Surfing.

Written by T1D and endocrinologist, Stephen Ponder, he puts forth that diabetes is a not a static disease but a dynamic one. The formulas that we program into our pumps or that inform multiple daily injection therapy can only work on an average day. Metabolically, we don’t live with a parade of average days; instead we live with days both a little and a lot above and below average. Ponder encourages us to respond to those changing needs in a timely way so that we can counteract a BG trend determined to rise or fall out of out target range. He describes his method as sugar surfing.

The key to figuring out your problem will be to change your overnight basal rates to counteract your rising BGs. I realize that that is easier said than done. You could use Gary Scheiner’s basal testing protocol to discover your current basal needs. This involves skipping a meal and observing the BG effects of the basal rate only for three or four multi-hour segments per day. People often start with the overnight period since we don’t usually eat overnight. Using this protocol requires some persistence as sometimes the initial set-up fails and you need to scrub the full test and try again 24 hours later.

If you successfully complete a basal testing regime, it doesn’t mean that you’ve discovered your perfect basal profile that will never need changing. I’m sure you’re aware that diabetes doesn’t make anything that simple! I see basal test as putting you in the right BG neighborhood so that sugar surfing will allow to move your blood glucose to a desired level for that time and that day. Just as every wave varies some for surfers, our dally blood glucose moves in a similar varying pattern.

I apologize if all this seems too complicated and all but impossible to employ in your life. While we all recognize the wisdom of “your diabetes may vary,” there are enough repeatable underlying glucose patterns in a person’s metabolism to make this, in most cases, a solvable puzzle.

Many of us have faced very similar circumstances as you and found a way to successfully deal with it. Maintain hope. This is a solvable puzzle. Unfortunately, today’s exact solution may not be tomorrow’s exact solution. Our daily blood sugar patterns may not exactly repeat themselves, but they do often rhyme.

You have the rest of your life to figure out how to handle diabetes. And you can get better at this game. Learn something about diabetes every day, keep a healthy attitude, and persist. Remember to cut yourself some slack when you fail. None of us get this complicated dance right 100% of the time. Learn from your failures. Good luck!

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For me SUNDAY is the problem, always. This morning I’ve been running my basal at 166%, taken a couple of correction boluses, and all I’ve eaten is my usual cup of coffee with cream and splenda, but despite a morning fasting BS of 110 it’s been up around 140-50 all morning. I know what it is though: I sing in a choir on Sunday mornings and this BG rise is such a regular pattern that I’m sure that bit of adrenalin charge and performance stress must be doing it. I’m cautious about upping my basal etc but I could probably hit it twice as hard and still not see much difference. Stress effects can be really stubborn.

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Are you keeping track of what day of the pod this happens? For many people, there is a gradual degradation of their site as the pump has been attached for several days. The reason pump companies tell you to swap out every 3 days is not because they can’t make one that lasts longer, it’s that they naturally go downhill for ALL pump infusions after a few days.

If you are seeing this mostly on day 3, consider that you may have a day 3 problem. If that is the case, switching out more frequently can help it.

Also, which insulin are you on? Certain insulins can be affected by site problems more than others.

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I have the same problem often. It seems it happens more with my blood sugar in the mornings. Another frustrating thing in the morning for me is,I never know what to bolus for my morning coffee. Some mornings if I bolus, I bottom out. Other days it seems I can’t take enough insulin to bring it down. It’s a guessing game everyday.

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The “do nothing bolus” makes a great case for Afrezza!

I notice the “do nothing bolus” (by the way I love this term) anytime I am over 165. I think for me it is insulin resistance. Sometimes the placement of my infusion site has something to do with it, I think. Some places on the “bod” work better than others it seems. The only consistent thing about D is that it is consistently inconsistent.

My T1D son, who is 12, recently got into puberty. So now he gets random hormonal peaks anywhere to 200, 300 or even 400+ . The height of the peak does not match the correction factor. For instance, this afternoon, his CGM started climbing. At 135 CGM he tested and got a 189 strip-test. His correction factor is about 1:60. Given his experience and knowing the peak was not food related, he injected 4 units (2.5 times nominal correction). Two hours later he was down to 130, and had to do a small correction to be back to the middle of his range.

So, when you get hormonal peaks for any reason, they may not correct the same way as a food peak. Steve Ponder says his stress peaks require about 1/2 the dose of his food peaks. For my son, his hormone peaks require a lot more than his food peaks. It has happened that he needed 15 units to come back from a 250 peak. Of course, since there is no way to know ahead of time, the only we can do is try from experience, and be ready with plenty of sugar at hand in case we had a heavy hand with insulin… This is where a CGM is priceless. I can’t imagine how our life would be without one.

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@Jen this is a good suggestion! I usually (out of stubbornness) stick with the 3-day duration of the pump, but I think I’ll be a little more aggressive with swapping sites if it seems like it’s not working. I’ve currently got the pump on my leg, and maybe the insulin is getting lost somewhere :slight_smile:

@Dizzybea I do wear a CGM as well, but I was cross-checking it with test strips after the two hour mark to make sure the CGM wasn’t off or lagging. I will say that even when I’m strict with my eating the prior day(s), I usually get a bump in the morning immediately after waking. I’ve never figured out if it’s because of the cup of coffee (not willing to give that up to see) or just something with my body.

@MarieB I laughed hard at “rage bolus”… Thanks!!

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@Terry4 Thanks so much for the awesome post and encouraging words! Will definitely check out the book and link you reference and see if I need to tweak rates.

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@Eric2 Thanks, have never heard of the site degradation-- will keep my eyes on it going forward if I have more problems. This particular pump is on day 2.

I’m on Novolog.

People that have expressed a difference to me seem to think NovoLog behaves better on day three than Humalog (not a unanimous declaration, just that it seems NovoLog has been reported by more to behave better on longer infusions than Humalog, by people who have expressed a difference to me - not trying to open up a Humalog vs. NovoLog tangent here).

I occasionally had a problem on day three with Humalog, but did not notice it with limited use of NovoLog. But I did not use it enough to say conclusively that it’s better.

Please pay attention to the day. It’s worth tracking as a possible cause.

The other thing to look at is a bad site. Keep notes on things like this. It helps to identify the cause.

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This is one of the bane’s of my existence. Not so much with coffee, as I drink black coffee and I don’t really need to bolus for that; however, certainly the whole I will eat the same snack every day, do the same activities before and after said snack, and have wildly different results from day to day!

First thing in the morning I need to take a bolus even if I have an absolutely normal blood sugar and don’t intend to eat. I have a wicked case of Darn Phenomenon. Even with Tresiba which controls my blood sugar overnight, the morning my feet hit the group my body just starts into glucose overproduction. You need the insulin you need. If you have dumps of glucose at times then you may just have to bolus for it. In my case "preemptively bolusing for my Darn Phenomenon uses much less insulin than waiting until my blood sugar is markedly elevated and then I have to battle all morning to bring it down.

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