Yeah, yeah, i know not really supposed to have fried stuff, but im a southerner darnit. Got some KFC and the Orig Rec isnt all that bad as carbs go, but it seems my body doesnt like it at all. did my dual wave bolus through my pump like i usually do and my PP reading was like 140. okay, lil high but its fried chicken ffs. 2 hours later my meter starts having a hissy fit (have CGM) with predicted high. check my BG and, holy a** crackers, 170. well crap. i supposed my body doesnt like flour at all does it?
As unpopular as this opinion may be, I’d consider that 170 a win…especially since it was after food that is so bad for you
HA, very true. I guess im just gonna chalk it up to a learning experience. its back down to 146 now and still have ~6 units active in me, and after drinking some water to help dilute.
I made myself fried chicken as a mother's day gift to ME! (I often find that if I make problematic foods at home, I have more control over what is in them.) It was delicious. So I ate one piece Sunday for dinner at 6:00. Took a square wave bolus over 90 minutes and was riding good at 10:00 at 103. Went to bed,and woke up at 210. CGM shows the BGs beginning to rise at 2am---8 hours after I ate the chicken. Ate the second piece Monday evening with similar results.
I can usually handle foods with high fat, especially with a square wave. Once in a while, though, I seem to hit a food combination (like that fried chicken) that throws me for a loop.
But let me tell you--marinated in buttermilk and herbs for two days, then flour, egg, flour dredge, and fried up. Worth the high numbers once in a while.
It's not the flour. It's the proteins and fats getting absorbed and turned into glucose by your body, many hours later. Not sure 170 is the worst number in the world :-). But yeah, fast-acting insulins are not a very good match to proteins and fats that take many hours to hit the blood as glucose.
I haven't had KFC since (believe it or not) I was in China last summer! They were everywhere in the cities! I might think from my cold-war era education that there are pictures of Chariman Mao everywhere in China, but that's not true. Colonel Sanders is everywhere instead (and even comes in red!).
I don't usually bother w/ dual waves unless I'm low and don't want to have all of the insulin at once. I've tried a bunch of foods (pizza, fries, fried chicken, etc...) and they all seem to have enough carbs in the "fried" to carry me over to when the protein and fat go to town and it seems to work more smoothly to just have the IOB.
I have tried a couple dual waves recently as I've been having tuna/avocado/sriracha sauce (no fried, LOL!) for lunch and was running low and then up and the dual wave seems to catch that nicely but it's also maybe 17-10G of carbs and 30G of protein so I bolus for 20-25G of carbs and just do a 1/2 hour delay of 1/2 the bolus. I would like to try to play around with managing fried, greasy stuff but I just don't eat it enough because, as Amy notes, it's so bad for me!!
I never use the dual wave--always the square. I think I am more comfortable with adding insulin slowly over a longer time, instead of adding it in two distinct stages. I feel the square makes the designated bolus extend from 4 hours to 4 + the time period of the square wave... Usually works really well.
I eat fried chicken occasionaly and I find that the breading digests at a normal rate. I also get original recipe as the crunchy kind is much more carbs.
I suggest you visit the Tudiabetes TAG group here: http://www.tudiabetes.org/group/tagers. I suspect the large amount of protein is causing your BG to raise after your 2 hour PP. This group does a great job of explaining that 58% of protein can be converted into glucose and impact your BG. This process takes longer that carbs and may be notice maybe 3-4 hours PP. A lot of TAGers use a dual wave bolus for high protein and/or fat meals to compensate. There are many great discussion in the group on methods people have used.
+1 to TAG it!
HATE to admit this.... I have been reading a book where they are always taking fried chicken on a trail ride or picnic... Made me so want fried chicken... Just put four pieces of chicken into buttermilk to marinate overnight. Do I risk milk gravy? No potatoes, of course! Got to be carb wary!! Update on Friday.
Update: Made the chicken AND the gravy--a couple of steamed potatoes and some cherry tomatoes. DELICIOUS. Took a 1.5 hour square wave bolus and am below 100 at 2 hours. (OK, as there is fat to consider) Cooking at home makes a difference.
This is facinating! I'm new to the pump life, and am having an awful time figuring it all out. What do the various "initials" mean, like IOB, PP, TAG, etc.? Is there an abbreviation glossary on the forum?
I would really like to know how to operate the different "wave" patterns, square, dual, or whatever they are. I think my ups and downs would be minimized if I could learn how to use those features, since my insulin is fast-acting also and my spikes seem to occur about three or so hours after eating. My doctor looks at my pump data every two weeks and is telling me that I'm eating too many carbs--imagine that! I'm sure that I am, but I am so careful to calculate how many carbs I'm eating and enter them into my (Minimet 530G) pump before eating. Silly me, I thought if I just did that, my BG levels would be fine! Please don't come down on me too hard, I have always been a very picky eater and only like "certain" foods, and if I had to give up the things I've been living on for over 70 years, I might as well just go ahead and die now. For instance, I cannot eat ANY raw vegetables, and with cooked veggies butter is my friend. Dry cereal makes me sick, can't stand anything labeled "whole wheat". White bread only for me. I no longer fry food, but I do love microwave popcorn and an occasional bowl of ice cream,and those are my main vices as far as eating goes. I am not overweight, do not smoke or drink alcohol. I had Type 2 DM for about the last 30 years, had very good control of my BG, but just a few months ago my pancreas stopped working and the doctor said I am now Type 1, hence the new pump.
Hope to hear from y'all with your advice and shared experiences.
I'd prefer Chairman Mao.
This glossary is from 4 years ago and seems a bit short on pump references. Here also is a list of common acronyms http://www.tudiabetes.org/notes/Commonly_Used_Acronyms
You don’t change from Type 2 to Type 1, Sandy. Some of us are Type 1 who were misdiagnosed as Type 2 initially due to age. If you were Type 2, you still are Type 2. Over time Type 2’s often stop producing insulin; but they are still type 2.
“IOB” means insulin on board, it’s important to calculate (your pump does it for you) the insulin remaining to know if it is enough for example to bring down a high. PP is post-prandial, a fancy way of saying after you eat (usually tested at 2 hours). TAG is a way to compute in protein to your bolus but only some people do that. I personally don’t bother as it all works out in the I:C imho (unless you are eating very low carb).
All pumps are different; my Animas Ping, for example doesn’t have square wave and dual wave, just “combo bolus” where you set the duration of the time you want to insulin distributed over, the amount and the percentage. For example I sometimes do 40% now and 60% later for high fat/high carb foods like pasta or pizza. I’m not positive dual and square but I think dual is “some now and some later” (like my 40/60) and square is “none now, all over time” - I could have that backwards. If you haven’t done so, I highly encourage you to read your pump manual as well as "Pumping Insulin by John Walsh. There is a glossary on here somewhere, but not sure where (aren’t I helpful?).
I would never come down on you; we’re gentle on here! A lot of people think the pump means you can eat whatever you want and just enter the data into your pump. And I think doctors encourage that thought. But some foods are very hard to accurately bolus for without ending up either too high or too low. We all have different hard foods, though a lot are shared. And we all make different choices: Never eat the food again, eat it very occasionally, eat it but in smaller amounts or “go for it and BG be damned”! LOL. I also have food limits as I’m a vegetarian, a foodie and have acid reflux. So I make choices that work for me. But just to comment on your food thoughts: Butter won’t hurt you, it doesn’t affect blood sugar and some people think it’s gotten a bad rap! Good thing you hate dry cereal because it is one of the foods I find impossible to bolus for (Me, I miss it, especially granola, but it just doesn’t work for me). A lot of people think whole wheat makes a difference but for me and many type 1’s it doesn’t. Don’t know about Type 2’s - I’ve heard it does. But if you hate it you hate it. Best advice is to “eat to your meter”. Try a food, like say white bread. Eat 2 slices with breakfast if that’s what you like and test two hours later. If you are always high with your normal I:C you might have to increase your eggs, vegies or meat and go to just one slice or check out low carb breads to see if you can tolerate them.
We all interpret “too many carbs” differently and it’s rare a doctor says that actually! “Too many carbs” are ones that cause consistently high blood sugars at your post prandial test, and high A1C’s. The less carbs the easier to maintain good blood sugar control. But we all have to find what we are comfortable with.
Hope this all helps!Don’t hesitate to ask questions!
Not fair, Vegetarian! :-)
Mike, is that a bolus with two spikes, or a spike followed by a square wave?
The pod can do the latter, but not the former. I really wish I could program a delayed spike bolus.
LOL. Even when I ate meat it wouldn't be fast food. Whether vegetarian or carnivore, I confess...I'm a snob!
Zoe - Great summary. TAG is an acronym for "total available glucose." There was a book written 20 or 30 years ago about this concept. I think it was written by a dietitian.
Anyways, the premise of the book is that 100% of carbohydrates convert to glucose, while only about 58% of protein, and 10% of fat. (These percentages vary from person to person.) Some PWDs here that adhere to a low carbohydrate diet (let's say < 75 grams per day) find that they need to also dose insulin for the protein and fat portions as well as the carb content of their food. They usually deliver the carb bolus immediately and then the protein/fat bolus extended over a few to several hours. I use this method to dose for every meal I eat.
Interested readers may explore the TuD group, TAGgers United, that has experimented with this method. It's not a very active part of the website now but there's a lot of good reporting on personal experimentation using the TAG method of insulin dosing.
You should be better aware of the fact that your intake of carbs and sugar should be limited. All cuts of chicken are high in protein and many are low in fat. although battered and fried, coated in a sweet glaze, or swimming in a sugary sauce chicken isn’t good for you. that could worsen type 2 diabetes. if you still insist or craving for chicken I would rather suggest you have Chicken Fingers, Chicken Nuggets, Hot Dog and Hamburger check Frisch’s menu prices.