Getting morning numbers down a bit

Type 2
1

Just curious what folks do when they see a rise in their morning/fasting numbers. I have been pretty strict about when and what I eat, and when I exercise, since my July dx, and was averaging 84 as my morning numbers, but the last four or five days, that has risen about 10 points and I am not sure what, if anything I am doing differently.

Don’t have any more stress than usual, and have been sleeping as well as always, and am on the same set of strips through this increase. That ten points gets in the way of my breakfasts, as I don’t have the “headroom” that I used to have to keep my goal of staying under 120 or so.

I suppose there are as many things to try, as there are type 2 diabetics :slight_smile: so I am soliciting input from those who have found a successful way to deal with this dawn phenomena which I seem to be having, even tho those numbers are not over the top like many suffer with, I am very cautious, and like to keep things as low as possible in hopes of outliving the debilitating effects of my numbers going too high.

I so most of my exercise in the AM, and in the evening, will stop eating anything around 7 or 8, going to sleep at 10 or 11. Almost always, between the last food, and bedtime, I will put in 30 minutes on the treadmill watching some dumb TV show, but not always, and I haven’t noticed anything different in the past if I did, or did not walk late in the evening.

If there is something that some have found to eat that helps, I am interested, but would really like a specific. Lots of articles say “fiber” or some other magic ingredient. Life is complicated with this beast, so if you eat something that helps your numbers in the AM, please share what it is? I think I am still low enough overall that I can experiment with some things.

Thanks much,

John

2

remember meters have a margin of error to them 10 points is not that big of a swing IMHO. For what it’s worth I find a glass of red wine at bed time helps keeps my fasting sugars low just what works for me. good luck

3

Oh my, I’d be THRILLED with readings like that. The lowest I’ve EVER been in the morning has been 129 and I average between 1145-160. I was 179 this morning.
I can actually bring mine low fairly quickly though by either walking to work or if I see it’s higher than I like, I climb the stairs in my office building for 15 mins or so and it’ll come back down to a manageable number until I can REALLY workout in the evening. That’s really the ONLY thing I have available to me.
I’m also trying all of the “magic ingredients” I read about. It can’t hurt, right? I’m trying to get some cinnamon, lemon juice, vinegar and LOTS of fiber into my diet everyday.
Keep us posted if you find something magical too!

4

Hi Barbara, I realize that many people have much higher numbers than I do. I was just caught early, I believe and so I am anxious to take as good a care as I can, to postpone what I figure is the inevitable rise.

Its not so much that 94 is a bad thing, but that its up 10 points, and I don’t know why, or not sure how to deal with it. I have obsessed over this, trying to keep things the same each day, and when there is a glitch, my obsession becomes a problem :slight_smile:

I need to get back to the cinnamon, and am still not finding anything I can eat, that I can take it with. now and then, a small apple microwaved and smushed up, as someone here suggested, tastes okay with the cinnamon, but I can’t do much fruit. Toast isn’t my friend, although I sneak a slice now and then. Pills from GNC would be nice, but money is a real problem for me right now.

You are right, all the “magic stuff” can’t hurt, and no one knows how it will affect you individually. Didn’t know about the lemon juice. that would be an easy one. I tried the apple vinegar, and it did a great job of slowing the rise from a plate of lasagna to where it kept me under 140, but yick! How to get it down. Then I read about what vinegar can do to your teeth over time, so I am still trying to find a way to get it down without hitting my teeth or my taste buds. BTW, a turkey baster doesn’t work! Lol!

Thanks, and hang tough…

John

5

This slight rise could just be a temporary blip.

Apple cider vinegar capsules are cheap. I’m Type 1 & never found that wine, apples, vinegar, cinnamon, fennel seeds or any of the other silver bullets helped. Maybe they work for Type 2s. From what I’ve read about vinegar it helps allegedly if taken with higher carb meals to slow the spike, but doesn’t do much otherwise. Yep, anything acidic isn’t good for tooth enamel, but if you rinse your mouth after it’s ok.

Don’t know if this is icky for you, but I like cinnamon in coffee. There are herb teas with cinnamon & cinnamon capsules. You can buy empty capsules inexpensively & fill them with cinnamon.

6

Ah. My favorite subject. “Darn Phenomenon.” I am like Barbara, I suffer from a wicked case. I test when my feet hit the floor and the best I can do is typically about 120 mg/dl. If I don’t eat, my blood sugar will continue to rise all morning. I have looked at all kinds of things, with no real successful prevention strategies. What really helps me is to eat first thing in the morning. I have a protein shake made with a cup of milk, a total of about 12-14 g carbs and 25g protein. This appears to generate a modest glucose surge and creates and insulin response, arresting my blood sugar rise. I’ve concluded that at least in my case, my DP is probably a result of my body clearing out my insulin in the early morning and then when my body naturally releases glucose to help me wake up it responds in a dysfunctional way and just keeps pouring out glucose without properly generating any insulin to maintain a normal blood sugar response.

Now that you have heard my story, let me give you some of the things that have been claimed to prevent DP.

Eat late at night (carbs alone, no carbs just protein, no carbs just fat)
Don’t eat at night
Don’t eat for 4-6 hours before bed
Exercise in the evening
Don’t exercise in the evening
Don’t perform exercise
Take all your metformin in the evening
Don’t take your metformin in the evening
Take a higher basal in the evening
Drink a glass of red wine before bed
Drink two glasses of red wine before bed
Drink many glasses of red wine before bed
Go to bed earlier
Go to bed later
Get up earlier
Wake up later

It may seem like my advice is contradictory, and it is. DP happens for different reasons and people react differently. Perform human experimentation on yourself and see what works.

ps. In my opinion, waking up with a blood sugar less than 100 mg/dl should be considered a “normal” value and I would not worry about it.

7

Worry is not the right term. Wonder is more like it.

Five months of 79-84, and now I can’t get below 95 in the AM. that is cause for wonder, and it will certainly be reflected in that A1c number that my doctor is so obsessed about.

8

Mine range from 117 (6.5) to 125 (7.0). Nearly always around that range and rapidly come down as soon as I have breakfast.

It’s never affected my a1c and I read somewhere that it’s not something to get too worried about.

I have 2 slices of Crackerbread (which is fairly low carb) with cheese and meat or pate on it before I go to bed. All my other blood tests are good as well as my eye tests so I’m putting it down to an individual thing.

Frank

9

Thanks Frank.

This is not at you, so remember that, okay? :slight_smile:

how can it not be something to be concerned about? (not worried) If my breakfast raises my BG 45 pts, and I wake up at 84, I am fine. If I wake up at 95, (and going up every day) I can no longer eat that breakfast, so yes, I think its something that makes me curious, and is messing up my eating habits so I have to be testing all over again, to find something else for breakfast. My numbers don’t come down when I eat breakfast. I also cannot see how someone can say that being 95 instead of 84 will not affect my A1c (not that I care much about my A1c number) Did someone change the method of calculating averages? :slight_smile:

I often eat just salad in the mornings, but as I figured when I first got dx’d, the first half year, the eating and counting wouldn’t be so bad, but I have reached my first “burn out” point, and am ready to just bag it completely. Knew it would happen, so it will be interesting to see how I come through it.

I get told I have this disease whose effects will most likely be the cause of my death, so yea, I like to understand why things happen, and try to find ways to make it better. Obsession or worry is not a part of it.

It is just me. Its part of the progression, I figure. I am tempted to put away the meter, and simply eat fairly healthy and forget about the diabetes. Sometimes its just too much hassle. Life isn’t that great in the first place that it should be worth all this math, journals, and calculating, working out, lifting weights … booorring…

thank you for your comments. Crackerbread? I am not familiar with that. I usually have an 8 carb tortilla with grated cheese from the microwave to kill of that last gasp of hunger for the day

10

I won’t say this too loudly, cause we wouldn’t want it to get out…but my docs told me, that when we get (shhhh) older, numbers could go up in the AM because we aren’t eating enough protein before we go to bed. They all suggested that I make sure that I get a 15mg protein snack in before bedtime ---- like 60 - 30 minutes before bedtime. Our metabolism even in our sleep is lower, so that the liver will kick in and we’ll see a rise (slightly) in the AM BS. NUTS! huh? Try eating a little protein before you go to bed, and see if that helps get you the numbers you want…I know it sure does me, and that makes me :o)!

Good luck

11

Okay Cathy, I am old, so I will whisper :slight_smile:

What do you eat, that is a 15mg protein snack? I still have much to learn about all the different nutrients, having paid most of my attention to carbs and calories so far. Specifics would be appreciated.

Please don’t tell me its something I have to cook and clean up after :slight_smile: I am alone, and hate being in the kitchen for such activities

Thanks,

John

12

I have to tell you (and I speak as an aging person), this did not work for me. I tried eating nuts. No go. I tried eating cottage cheese. No go. I tried the whey protein shake. Sorry no go. It really depends. It may work for you. Give it a try, it does not have to involve some cooking and cleanup. I always like cottage cheese, high protein. Scoop it out of the container, give it a squirt of Sriracha and viola an easy snack. If you don’t want the fat, then mix up a quick whey protein shake with water and down it. 25 grams of protein, no carbs and no fat.

13

Thanks. I know there is no common cure for all that we go through. I try most anything, under the title of “what is the downside”

Now to explain my ignorance. Would you tell me what is, and where to buy what I need to make, a protein shake. I am not all that brilliant when it comes to knowing what all of these things are that so many of you talk about, and when its just a generic name, I am left to wonder what it is, where to find it, what its called, etc. :slight_smile:

I would try that, before cottage cheese. A lot of folks talk about eating cottage cheese. I’m not there yet. I made myself I eat broccoli and other veggies I never used to, so I am making progress, but I have a fear of food that you can’t tell when its gone bad. Lol!

John

14

Always worth experimenting!

There are many types of protein powders. If you’re looking for one with the highest protein content, whey isolate powder is great. You want to get the isolate, not hydrolized form. I use a brand called NOW. Health food stores sell whey isolate powder & often in bulk, which is cheaper. You can also order NOW & other brands on-line at www.netrition.com. I get unflavored NOW (the flavored varieties are full of added carbs & colorings & artificial stuff) & add my own flavorings. I blend it with unsweetened almond milk (available at supermarkets). It’s all low carb. NOW dissolves instantly–no lumps or clumps. It’s rich & filling. I have protein shakes for lunch. 1.5 cups of almond milk, 1 TBS unsweetened cocoa, 1 scoop of protein powder & a little stevia for sweetener. Of course, any flavoring works.

Hemp protein powder isn’t as high protein, but has good fats. It has a slightly nutty flavor. Nutiva makes a great hemp powder.

There’s also pea protein, but it has a pea taste. I add this to soups for thickening, You need a lot of flavoring to cover up the pea flavor for shakes.

I avoid anything with soy because I have thyroid problems, like many people with diabetes, so can’t speak to a good brand of soy protein powder. I tried a couple of protein powders made from eggs–bleech!

Slightly higher morning numbers are common. Significantly higher fasting numbers than before bed numbers indicates dawn phenomenon, which is a more a Type 1 condition though Type 2s can also have it.

I eat a small amount of protein before bed (cheese or nuts). It’s not to help morning BG, but to help prevent lows overnight from insulin. Different situation than yours.

15

Great advice. I get my whey mix at Costco in big 6lb bags. There are actually many sources. My grocery store carries certain brands, as do Target, Walmart. GNC has a wide variety. This biggest thing to check is that you are getting a low carb version. Many are advertised as “Mass Building” and contain sugar. You want a low carb version 2-5g of carbs/serving, no more. Get one that is a desirable flavor. If you are strict and mix it with water, the taste will be less than desirable. I generally mix with a cup of milk fully understanding the it is adding another 12 g of carbs. I have a shaker that I use to help mix it. Pop a scoop in, fill to the line with water and/or milk, shake and drink. I agree with Gerri on the selection, I think the 1000% whey protein is best. It is fast digesting and is the most bioavailable. If you are using it overnight, you might select a casein protein, although not as bioavailable, it would be slower digesting.

16

“If I wake up at 95, (and going up every day) I can no longer eat that breakfast”

WHOA!! you don’t skip meals because you woke w/ a 95. that is a crazy idea especially since 95 is a great number. it could lead your body to think you’re starving and dump sugars into your bloodstream (aka dawn phenomenom)

a 10 point bump could be anything - including the inaccuracy of the machine.

17

Crackerbread is a low carb crispbread, John. It’s 3.8 carbs per slice so two slices is 7.6g.

Have you tried not exercising on the treadmill late at night? Maybe that exercise is driving your bgs too low so that in the night time your body overcompensates by releasing too much glucose?

I would have thought 84 a little too low first thing in the morning.

For breakfast maybe try:

Fried mushrooms

or grilled bacon

or small tin of mackerel

or three franfurters from a jar

or two scrambled eggs.

I don’t do progression :slight_smile: The progression route is the phantasy of the pharmaceutical firms who would love to see all us Type 2s on insulin.

18

Yep that is correct Cathy. Along with my two slices of Crackerbread I have cheese and ham or other forms of meat or pate.

So far my (relatively) high am numbers have not affected my a1c. In the morning they are around 7.5 (135).

Frank