I was thinking of getting the Bayer A1C gizmo to replace the chore of running to the lab. Today I got up high, corrected, worked out, thought about running to the lab but realized that the IOB was not going to support fasting until the lab opens at 8:00 so I went to Walgreens to check it out and found it, looks promising *but* the "fine print" seems to say that you get 2x "cartridges" and that's it? I looked around to see how much more cartridges are and they didn't seem to have any which made me think the thing might be disposable, which would reduce my interest in it quite a bit. Does anybody use these and can you get more cartridges?
Yes it is but you can get a 2 test or a 10 test pack...Look on the net
Ah thanks, that's what I saw now that I've had some coffee and looked around more (and BG out of 30s...hmmm...) I saw the 10 packs are into 3 figures and it will probably take me too long to think about, I'll get down to the wire and have to go to the lab and blow it off. It seems really wasteful to me to throw out a machine that could be engineered to work with replaceable cartridges.
Sorry, I cannot recommend them. Reason - I used the Bayer and had my lab do it, one day apart. Bayer said 8.2! Lab said 7.1. I have been having the A1C done ever since it became available via the doc's office, and keep pretty good logs of my readings. I feel that at this point I can predict what it will be by looking at my logs and would say that the 7.1 was correct.
I think there are too many variables in the Bayer kit that could skew the outcome.
I have also tried the WalMart Relion brand, where you put blood on a strip, mail it in, and they send you the results. they lost two of mine, despite me having the "tracking number that was provided". So, more $ down the drain.
I've used Relion and done a direct compare with the Lab; Relion gave exactly the same number, but it took longer. Costs were comparable.
The Walgreens device looks promising but I haven't tried it yet, Walgreens prices certainly made it cheaper than the lab, and it would be good to do an HbA1c one a month rather than once every 3 months because the HbA1c really only represents the last month or two.
John Bowler
I am with Kathy on this. The Bayer A1c now has been evaluated repeatedly by the NGSP and has been found to be inaccurate. The Relion test is just as cheap as the Bayer, but get's mailed off to Heritage Labs. Heritage is NGSP certified and uses the Roche Cobas Integra 800 CTS. You can compare the accuracy demonstrated in the sampled results in the NGSP certification process and clearly the Heritage/Roche combination is far superior to the Bayer.
Not really answering your questions , but supplying my latest observation . I may share my Lab test result , done last Wed ...but if it is the same as the Bayer A1C result ...then I might not :) I had a Bayer A1C done at one of the local Pharmacies ...and was in shock : 8.4 ...Pharmacist agreed to do another one , about 1 hour plus later : 8.4 and I was even more in shock ...
Brian's reference shows that some labs *do* use the Bayer and that the Bayer has consistent deviations from other tests. The accuracy of the Bayer in terms of consistency of its results is apparently no different than the other tests, indeed one or two other tests show significantly worse consistency. It seems surprising that the NGSP saw these variations consistently yet Bayer can't correct them by adjusting the read-out.
There were some comments in there about an apparent correlation of the actual reading with HbAS, which is a human genetic variation; that's difficult to fix because if it is right for people with the HbAS variation it's wrong for those without it.
John Bowler
I would freak the hell out if I "Bayered" my A1C and it came back way higher than normal, even if it was consistent so I will deal with the inconvenience of dragging my butt to the lab every three months...
Thank you all for the reporting! I had a sense of that maybe but couldn't recall the other threads so I figured I'd ask!
most interesting.
I found it was most important to do test when your blood glucose was fasting and low. My understanding is that the bayer test is overweighted by the immediate BG value of the blood.
One thing not mentioned is the error rate on the Bayer A1c. I don't mean accuracy, I mean errors that give you no # and when you call Bayer customer service as suggested they do not replace that test, just tell you how to better take the next test. (ie. too little or too much blood, held wrong, etc). So you need to factor into the cost possible wasted tests...bad enough when it's a wasted test strip!
I've used the OTC Bayer A1C kits, and found them to be close to my doctor's in-office tests, which also appear to be Bayer A1C. Usually within .1 or .2 points.
In general they were in line with my average BG, using CGMS and meter data as reference.
Don't know if it matters, but this is with average A1C in 5-6 range. There may be higher error in the higher ranges.
Recently my doctors office started using a different machine, that is not for home use. The last 2 results seemed consistent with what I expected. I haven't had one done at the lab in over 6 years, so can't say how that compares.
In my research, I found some reference to Bayer A1C inaccuracy, done at dr's office, but it also noted it was more helpful to have during the patient visit, to influence what was discussed.
As one living with diabetes for over 30 years , without complications and have never figured out my A1C result compared to the av. of many finger pokes in a 24 hour time frame , the CareLink sensor reports etc. the Lab result of past Wed was 7.1 ..Bayer Home test x 2 within one hour : 8.4 .I have had the Bayer test done in the past with a much closer result .I am giving up on being at the effect of a bunch of numbers , ha, ha
The blood glucose meters calculate the average incorrectly; they simply add the numbers together and divide by the number of readings. This would work only if you tested *every* 15 minutes, 24 hours a day.
We don't do this; even if we test every waking hour the BG variations between when we go to sleep and when we wake up are ignored.
It's possible to fix most of this with simple math. There's still some problem if we have a peak or low overnight and peaks do happen (particularly with high fat or high protein evening meals), but those problems are likely to be relatively minor for most well controlled diabetics.
HbA1c, on the other hand, does the math right, although it is important to understand that it is weighted towards a time about a month before the test is done.
All the same, your two HbA1c tests are not consistent because the accuracy limits of +/-7% that the tests are meant to achieve aren't enough to account for the 8.4/7.1 difference, a combined error of about 9% per test.
It's disappointing.
Maybe the right solution is to find some general way of getting the BG readings and the time from at least one meter (I use a Bayer Contour USB) then the average can be calculated correctly quite easily.
John Bowler
John , I think you are referring to my comment ?? I use same meter ( Bayer Link ...to my pump ) consistantly and wear a CGMS regularly ( not every day . I cannot believe that the 10- 12 pokes sometimes more will miss the HI and the Lo's ...I would know if a LO ( below 3.4 x 18 )...I check during the night every night ( must admit I am sleep deprived ...my age ( almost 73 ) may have sommething to do with that another story ) I had a low level of Vit B12 ..and now take supplements .. I think the chemistry of my blood maybe the culprit ??? Hope to supply next time my CareLinkk result of the CGMS
I use them in my office for a1c, and they run spot on with our endo's office. I order 20 a box , but the consumer ones are exactly the same test. there is a website called cliawaivedonline or something like that if you really wanted to order a large quantity you could. but they only last on the shelf 6 months I think, so that might not work for induvidual use. that must be why they package the consumer one only with two, because if you check a1c every three months, two tests is what you need.
Well... if you check (say) 8 times during the day and your BG is consistently (say) 5.0 each time then you check 4 times during the night and your BG is (say) 7.0, what is the average?
I believe the meter will say 5.6, but assuming 12 hours for the 8 tests in the day and 12 hours for the 4 in the night HbA1c would say 6.0.
Of course I haven't double checked this; if I could find out how to get the readings out of my meter it would be easy, but extracting the data looks like a lot of work.
John Bowler