So, let’s see whether we’ve got this straight.
(a) societal pressure to eat bad diets and not exercise leads to T2; people are not individually responsible for it happening to them
(b) people (who presumably can exercise free will) yield to those pressures and develop T2
therefore
© T2 results from individual choices
Sounds like the same old same old blame game.
You can’t have it both ways. Pick one.
I don’t believe anyone chose to have type 2 diabetes any more than anyone in Flynt Michigan chose to drink poison water. That’s the problem, there was no choice or the choices that would have led to a different outcome were impractical. As I’ve tried my hardest to illustrate in this and other discussions, I believe that this is never an individual’s fault, but always the fault of a society that is on the wrong track…
The problem is that there essentially is no choice. If you want to have a ‘real job’ in this society and provide for yourself and family, it’s almost certainly going to be a sedentary lifestyle. Unless you are going to raise, catch and grow all your own food, and or spend 6 figures on your food alone (and hours every day preparing it) you’ll likely be eating poorly in this society as well— that’s probably not realistic for most people either. those aren’t choices that you or I make---- but those are the challenges we face. If we can somehow figure out how to start tipping the scales back in the other direction, we will leave the world a better place someday. If we keep sitting at our computers preaching that diabetes is unavoidable, we will leave it a worse one.
It’s an appealing and comforting theory, particularly inasmuch as it shifts resposibility away from individuals.
But it doesn’t compute in the real world. People can make alternative choices if they know that choices exist. The people in Flint didn’t know that the water was bad until someone blew the whistle. But individuals can make better choices IF they know about the danger. It’s quite possible to eat a healthy diet today; a great many of the members here do. And if it’s really true that bad diet and lifestyle choices lead to diabetes, then given the way we are bombarded with that theory every day in every medium, there’s no reason people can’t choose to eat better and live better. Either the individual does it to him/herself, or they don’t. You just can’t have it both ways.
Only, the “healthy diet options” are oftentimes more expensive…it is a shame when a burger costs $.99 at some restaurants while a salad costs $5. Eating crappy is cheaper, faster, and it’s why a lot of people choose it.
And if you want organic…watch out! My family eats all organic and we spend a lot of extra money just on the vegetables alone.
Yes, many members here, on a diabetes forum, made helpful diet and lifestyle adjustments after they developed a chronic disease. The challenge is to get the rest of the world, and the next generation, to do the same, but before instead of after. It’s common sense that if those adjustments can slow the progression of diabetes it can equally slow or stall the progression from non-diabetic to diabetes.
I wish the world we lived in was really that simple. Unfortunately, it’s not.
But the question becomes what is a “healthy diet” - the “healthy” high-carb diet that the American government pushed with a base of grains at the bottom of the pyramid for years and years?
I have Poly-Cystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS), but grew up in the low-fat-everything phase. The age of Snackwells cookies and low-fat dressings. As I hit puberty, the weight really started piling on. So of course, in came the diet wisdom of eat low-fat everything! More fruit!!! Low-fat cookies instead of oreos. Everything in moderation, blah blah blah. And yet, the weight still piled on. Go figure! None of my doctors actually mentioned the word PCOS until I was in my 30s, though my diabetes was diagnosed in my 20s. But PCOS comes along with… dun dun dun… insulin resistance!
So here I am eating a “healthy” diet, doing what “the experts” and doctors told me to do, and driving myself right into diabetes.
And even after being diagnosed, I was sent to a CDE who recommended 45-60g of carbohydrate at meals + 15-30g of carbohydrate 2x a day for snacks! Just avoid sugar and white carbs, and take my pills.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. In the context of this discussion, “healthy” was meant to refer to the diet that (supposedly) prevents diabetes from manifesting.
I know. Sadly, David - growing up I was always told to lose weight to avoid becoming diabetic as it ran in my family. And that’s how I was encouraged to eat, by doctors no less! My point is to simply reinforce your comment of “IF they know about the danger.”
It’s like you said, people have to know the danger exists - and a lot of them don’t. Even when we get supposedly good medical advice, we still end up having to go out and find the answers on our own before we can get it right, sometimes, due to being inundated with so much wrong information about what’s healthy for us.
I couldn’t agree more. A major part of what is needed is a ground up reevaluation of how human beings should actually be eating. Unfortunately there are an awful lot of politics standing in the way of that— but it’s really where change needs to start.
As I said before - for almost two decades prior to diagnosis, as a result of concern over my mother’s diagnosis of T2S, I did “everything” right – I cut out most “refined sugar” from my diet - relegating those things to “occasional treats” - ate nuts and seeds, I ate probiotics (mostly in the form of yoghurt, which I HATE… ), I ate fish multiple times a week, exercised every day to varying degrees and mixing cardio with weight training. Yes, I fell into the low fat mentality to some degree, but supplemented with good protein mostly, rather than carbs. I lost just about all the excess weight I’d gained from my bachelor years - in a slow, methodical way, so as to make sure it was maintainable. I became accustomed to a fairly low-calorie diet of 1400-1600 calories a day - quite few, considering my activity level.
Like you, when I was diagnosed with, the dietitian wanted me to significantly INCREASE my food intake - all the was to 2750 calories, 40-50% of which should be carbs (75-80g per meal, plus two 25g snacks). I stood my ground there and refused to even touch that much food on a daily basis! She “compromised” at 2200 calories, though I walked away shaking my head. Even without increasing my intake at all or decreasing my activity level, once injected insulin became my treatment, the pounds piled back on. It’s taking incredible effort to even make a dent in that weight gain – and with no help at all from my physicians, who do not see it as a problem.
As to “healthy diet” – that really depends. Over the last several weeks, I’ve been working with a functional medicine practitioner and trying to change things toward the more healthy direction; however, if it is true that the real culprits are the additives, antibiotics, pesticides and other contaminants in the food supply and the only answer is a purely natural, organic, whole foods, “clean protein” (as in grass-fed meat and pasture-fed chickens, for example) – all things that I have been trying to follow, at least for the last 6 weeks (with some lapses along the way…), the problem will be economy. I currently do have a better-than-average income and access to many “healthy” options, but I can see that just over the last six weeks my food bill has MORE THAN DOUBLED, and my resources are being taxed to the breaking point. Granted that I have some additional challenges, as I keep Kosher. Where I live, grass-fed kosher beef FIVE TIMES the price of the other meat; paster-fed chicken is THREE TIMES the price, as are their eggs. Dairy from grass-fed cows is only double the price, but, for now in this program, I have been told to severely limit dairy. Organic produce is anywhere from double to four times the price – and again, due to some esoteric Kosher considerations, not always readily available. The choices are simply NOT GOOD. I can see that, barring some significant change in my situation, I will not be able to sustain this way of eating for long. Sure, I can handle the macro-nutrient concerns (in fact, I am eating a lot more in this program than I did before), but not the specifics.
And this is on a 'high-middle-class" salary. I can’t even imagine how someone of more moderate means, let alone a retired person on a fixed income, could handle it at all. And in the end… IS THIS REALLY THE ANSWER? Or is the whole thinking just another red herring from the “medical” or “alternate medical” community? I don’t know. So far, my results don’t seem to justify the cost or effort, in my opinion…
I just wish we could go back to the old days when everything sold was organic from start to end (from birth to supermarket shelf)…but that’s dreaming. Our food has so much crap in it because of one reason…money. Companies want to make as much money with as little investment as possible and that’s what led (imho) to the decline of our society…as far as our food selections go.
I have my own garden to be sure I have organic although I still have to buy from the store regularly due to my family size. There are “organic meat groups” out there where you can join in together as a group to “buy a whole cow, pig, etc.,” I have done this in the past and plan to do it again soon…not only does it support the local economy, but you can go to the farm and see the cattle, sheep, pigs, etc., and know that they aren’t locked up being injected with the harmful chemicals we all hate.
All great ideas, but impractical or impossible in my situation, for a number or reasons. Bottom line, for my, it’s already stretching my budget and time to the breaking point. I simply can’t imagine what it does to people in even more resource or time restricted situations.
This is why I think type 2 is so dangerous. People don’t understand how serious it is. When doctors say pre-diabetes, many don’t think it’s a big deal. And while they continue in that pre-diabetes limbo, damage is done. I think both types suck the big one but the reality is, if they are not treated with whatever treat,EMT is needed for that person, bad things could happen.
I was diagnosed back in 1970 and back than there was a lot of juvenile vs adult onset bickering. It was only when I really started down the intensive treatment plan, that I learned many with type 2 also have no choice. It is genetic. And it doesn’t matter how fit you are, are what you eat, it will happen. I do agree that if you know it runs in your family, there is a history, you might want to take it seriously.
I think the blame game all around needs to be put to rest. We as a (I’m sorry to say) huge family of people with diabetes can make a big impact on how the country and world deals with diabetes. We as the huge group that we are can carry a lot of weight fighting for better care for everyone. So instead of being type 1 or type 2 wouldn’t it be great if we were just people with diabetes and the doctors and patients can decide which treatment will work best for them instead of going with whatever treatment is decided works for 1 or 2. Let’s continue to fight the fight to stay as healthy as we can and continue the fight to get the correct care for everyone who wants it!
Such is life my friend.
I wouldn’t sweat the perceptions of others, not worth the time and energy.
I think situations such as this are part and parcel of the disease and the sooner we can just let them slide the easier it becomes, I did try the alternate route of “educating” any individual who offended my sensibilities when it came to diabetes and diabetes management, but invariably I ended up more irritated or upsetting somebody who had no intention of offending me in the first place. So now I flash a smile or thank people for their ignorance ha, works for me.
Regarding CGM adhesion, there are a multitude of products that will help here, but given that you’re climbing, cross-fitting, fixie riding I’d expect to see a reduction in the reliability and longevity in the sensor if I am honest. I’ve often kinked the CGM filament and damaged reliability through cross fit type stuff.
Sensor placement is key, put it where it won’t be subject to as much movement, the outer thigh, high on the back of the arm above the tricep work very well for me, of course your mileage may vary.
This is a good review of some tapes that may be of some use.
Personally, I apply a small amount of antiperspirant to the area around the insertion as this helps stop the sensor coming lose due to sweating and then I apply hypafix.
On a side note, I used to indulge in the whole, ego driven Type 1 Vs Type 2, I’m holier than thou because I’m a type 1, I didn’t cause my diabetes etc, but I learnt that the relationship is not that as simple or linear as suggested, we’re all diabetic and indulging in such dualities around such a complex issue does a disservice to everyone involved.
From your original post it doesn’t read like any of these people did you a disservice, you can’t expect a non type 1 or the general population to have the same level of understanding of the disease as you, they don’t live with it 24/7.
I’d appreciate somebody asking how I was, or telling me to take it easy if I bring my diabetes to their attention, if people’s responses irritate you regarding your diabetes, don’t tell them you are diabetic or engage people in discussion about the subject. Problem solved.
I’ve various gym classes for several years and my diabetes only came up in conversation recently upon somebody seeing a sensor on the back of my arm. The club owner knows of my Type 1 and it’s noted on my induction records, but that’s it. It was never discussed with the 20 or so people I’d been working out with for several years.
Hi!
Read this and thought I had written it. I feel you. I run at least 5 days a week a minimum of 5 miles at a time so I go through a lot of the same BG issues.
As for the sensor , have you tried tegaderm? It stays through the sweat pretty good. We use it in anesthesia to help keep epidurals in place while women are laboring (and sweating).
And yeah Ive had many face palm moments of people’s ignorance to the condition. I try to hide my pump as best as I can so it doesn’t become a conversation.
Take care.
Dez
Sway - Yes the receiver is programmed to stop the session at the end of 7 days. Meanwhile the sensor and transmitter keep doing their job. Unless the sensor is giving me a bunch of ??? more often than it is giving me readings, I just start a new session with the original sensor and use it for as long as I can, for me that is typically 10 days.
I actually have 2 receivers. I always start a new sensor with the newest receiver. When the session is on its last few hours, I start the spare receiver and already have it calibrated before the 1st receiver stops it’s session. Again, you do not need 2 receivers, but this allows me continuous readings throughout the life of a sensor despite the 2 hour calibration startup. When I start a new sensor, my previous receiver will have no readings for 1 hour but then start providing fairly accurate readings 1 hour before the new receiver completes its startup.
I do the same thing, but I do them a day apart - so I always have one that isn’t in the 12-24-hour (wacky) new-sensor period. Or at least that’s the plan… 
Thas - Thanks for the comment, Excellent plan, I’ll have to begin starting up the spare a day earlier - if I remember - or at least as soon as I get the 1st notice of session getting ready to end.