I will not apologize for my behavior!

Actually, Sarah, doctors -- GP's or Specialists -- are not really a very good source for information on medical research and study data (spoken as the son of an Internist -- I know lots of doctors well).

What Christalyn says above is true -- by the time of diagnosis, all T2's have substantially reduced beta cell function -- this is why they have become symptomatic, i.e. diabetic. Prior to that, they have been living with insulin resistance for years, and their pancreas has been meeting that challenge.

A paper by Guillausseau PJ1, Meas T, Virally M, Laloi-Michelin M, Médeau V, Kevorkian JP. titled, "Abnormalities in insulin secretion in type 2 diabetes mellitus" published in 2008 in the Journal, Diabetes & Metabolism. The abstract:

Type 2 diabetes mellitus is a multifactorial disease, due to decreased glucose peripheral uptake, and increased hepatic glucose production, due to reduced both insulin secretion and insulin sensitivity. Multiple insulin secretory defects are present, including absence of pulsatility, loss of early phase of insulin secretion after glucose, decreased basal and stimulated plasma insulin concentrations, excess in prohormone secretion, and progressive decrease in insulin secretory capacity with time. beta-cell dysfunction is genetically determined and appears early in the course of the disease. The interplay between insulin secretory defect and insulin resistance is now better understood. In subjects with normal beta-cell function, increase in insulin is compensated by an increase in insulin secretion and plasma glucose levels remain normal. In subjects genetically predisposed to type 2 diabetes, failure of beta-cell to compensate leads to a progressive elevation in plasma glucose levels, then to overt diabetes. When permanent hyperglycaemia is present, progressive severe insulin secretory failure with time ensues, due to glucotoxicity and lipotoxicity, and oxidative stress. A marked reduction in beta-cell mass at post-mortem examination of pancreas of patients with type 2 diabetes has been reported, with an increase in beta-cell apoptosis non-compensated by neogenesis.

While it is true that T2's will usually always have some insulin production regardless of how far the disease has progressed, it is not true that they have an otherwise healthy pancreas producing the maximum amount of insulin possible from a healthy organ and it's just insulin resistance that makes it not enough.

The problem is a combination of IR and impairment of the pancreas. Something else you many not be aware of: IR, once someone's a diagnosed diabetic (i.e. it's progressed enough to be symptomatic), IR is pretty stable, and doesn't really get any worse for most T2's as long as they maintain their weight.

The disease continues to progress, however, because the pancreas continues to decline. Many T2s, like T1s, end up needing basal insulin in their later years because their condition is very similar -- little to no insulin production. The paths to get there are different, but the end result is the same.

I tend to agree with Dave. The 2008 ADA Banting award winner Ralph DeFronzo has argued that by the time you are diagnosed with T2 you have lost 80% of your beta cell function. Sadly as a T2 who has always tried very hard to manage my diabetes my last c-peptide was 0.4 ng/dl. Lower than some T1s here. Having T2 involves potentially a lot of things going wrong, insulin resistance is one but loss of insulin production and other defects also come into play.

I wish I had a fully working pancreas, but it is "broken" along with other stuff in my aging body.

Having T2 involves potentially a lot of things going wrong, insulin resistance is one but loss of insulin production and other defects also come into play
In fact, as some T1s here have said tongue-in-cheek, they'd rather have T1 than T2 because of the broader syndrome, or spectrum of problems included in Metabolic Syndrome.

Of course I'm pretty sure they don't really feel that way, but were showing some solidarity with us T2's and much of the other stuff we have to deal with.

Me? I'm T2, and I'll take that over T1 any day. I don't ever have to worry about my basal (yet). My pancreas can handle it -- barely. I know it's right on the margin -- when I get sick and the IR goes up, it can't even keep up with that.

nor am I. that's a burned out topic. it's you who's taking the defensive side here. I'm just making a point about a functioning pancreas vs. type 1. there are many things the pancreas does, not only produces insulin. the non function pancreas of a type 1 is far different then a type 2 using insulin. it just is. and yes, there is no such thing as reverse diabetes, it pisses me off too. type 2's aren't cured ever, either and I've heard Dr. Oz suggest this as well, shame on him. but they can often eliminate their resistance if other metabolic issues are changed. sure, type 1's can be resistant, they can be overweight and have BP and cholesterol issues, T1's Dx as children do grow into adults (thank goodness) and can have any other issues as well. However, that was never the cause of the T1 disease.

Sorry, Sarah---are you addressing me with that comment? I chose not to go down that road, also, though I really appreciate Dave chiming in because there may be people in this thread who are new to these things and need the info, even if we already know it......Blessings

It is important to remember that people with type 1 who have the genetic propensity for type 2 (i.e. it is in their family) can also develop or be Dx'd with type 2. It is too bad that having one thing doesn't make us immune to another. Often, it is when their usual dosing settings or ratios no longer work as well, and tweaking the insulin upward doesn't help that they are Dx'd with the insulin resistance of type 2. There is a new test out there - DIST or DISTq that measures insulin production that can serve those with just type 2 to get a good Dx and for people like me who were initially Dx'd with type 2 though presenting with classic rapid on set type 1 - just cuz I was 30. Had that test existed, and had I known to ask for it I wouldn't have had to go so far as to be found in DKA coma to get the correct Dx.

I do not like Dr. Oz with a passion and was extremely happy with glee to see him get grilled in congress...

Okay you have made your point about a functioning pancreas vs. T1...Be reminded AGAIN...the topic of conversation was my experience with a holistic guru.... let's move on from this...

I will ask people to keep with talking about holistic/ shaman clowns that claim to reverse diabetes with herbs and spices. To me this is a bigger problem because the ADA doesn't do anything about spotting these people or at least advising diabetics these guys exist. If these guys were to say that about Breast Cancer or AIDS they would under the jailhouse.

I apologize if my comments went in the wrong direction. I was thinking how scared I'd be if I were rushed to a NYC hospital in a cardiac emergency and Oz showed up as my physician! I don't know if it was the FDA or some other federal agency that put together a video about diabetes treatments that sound too good to be true (no work, no meds, no nothing - and you're cured) to show that they were just BS. there Needs to be more of those. No matter the type of D, I don't know if it just isn't viewed as serious, the blanket blame game on the people with D - that we did it to ourselves, I mean I have never heard anyone with MS blamed nor offered "quick fix" "cures". And since I am venting bile here, the next time someone says "well at least it isn't cancer" Well, I have the answer to that - they are curing more and more cancer everyday - my husband is a C survivor Metastasize melanoma. I guess a lot of the difficulty for all of us is that the causes and presentations are so complex. I've always been grateful that my symptoms came on so strong and fast (although not strong and fast enough to get a correct Dx) that I new something was wrong and tried to get it dealt with.

Ah yes..... Those people. And what is even worse is when a friend buys into the tripe & then looks down on you for still having diabetes.

Have you seen/read/heard about the latest & greatest "miracle cure" for diabetes? They make the claim it works for Type 1 & 2. Brace yourself, this is life changing. Ready?..... A 30sec cold shower a day. Yep. The claim is you take a 30sec cold shower a day & that activates the "brown fat" & you will be diabetes free in a few weeks.

And a word of disclaimer for those that might want to read up on it. Careful of the links you click. If the link had a 'click bank' url, they make money off those clicks. The whole think is an affiliate network scam.

you are fine!!!

This is what I don't understand...the ADA never says anything about this foolishness or at least makes an official opinion about this. You don't see this this AIDS and Breast Cancer...Not only ridiculous claims but silly so called scientific studies using a test population of like 7-50 people to represent 30 million.

I think the "sneaky and insidiousness" nature of type 2 is worse (in my type 1 opinion) than the onset of type 1. Often it isn't until a person gets - and pays for - new glasses and the new Rx doesn't work that they see their doctor and are Dx'd with type 2. Already damage has been done.

This is why I am so adamant about media getting things right. I contact the "health news reporter" at my local TV station to follow up on either errors or to request they specify which type of D they are addressing. I also contact all media in prep for Nat'l D Month. My goal is to get the info as to how one gets D - of any type - and especially if type 2 is in one's family - get tested early and often. With the blame game, and these BS cures, it is too easy for the uninformed to think if they are "well-behaved" or eat the cure-de-jour, they won't get D. No one else is gonna tell the media the facts, it is up to us. If enough of us actively share the correct info, in time - it is my hope - they'll get it right.

I contacted Joy - the Today how nutritionist asking her to specify which type of D she was talking about. I explained the differences and how one gets it. We emailed back and forth and she now is correct in her segments. It can happen.

Yeah, I haven't seen any ads for bras that guarantee no breast cancer if you buy them...

See? This is the reason I love Tudiabetes. I learn so much from you all. I have read a couple of articles stating that people can end up with both types of diabetes, but it's always written in scientific terms. Whereas here, you all make things so much easier to understand.

Especially which tests to ask the doctors to run.

Christalyn/artwoman/Judith -

I thought this article treading on Twitter was perfect timing to your thread responses re: Dr. Oz and his advice - http://www.vox.com/2014/12/17/7410535/dr-oz-advice

Well, I hope my comments didn't anger or offend Sarah -- we've crossed swords over this before here. Bottom line is we have different opinions on this, based on information sources each of us have in our quiver, and this in itself should not be a basis for any ill feelings.

Sarah, I respect you and your participation here, and have been trying to reach out a bit. I hope my sharing my perspective -- different than yours -- on this doesn't invoke any bad feelings.

Hah! Perfecto! Very satisfactory! And nice that it is trending. Hah! again.....Thanks, Kate......

They can make ANY claim they wish… quack or white coat, same same. What I do not suffer is arrogence or condescension in any forn. We will choose, the course they do not!a If they can prove their ridiculous claims… im in. But met many over time with dumy tattoed

Bit I suffer charletans badly.

I would expect nothing less from you, Friend Stuart. I invite you to join Artwoman and myself in a Whackadoodle Fest. Your physical prowess, when joined with a couple old dancers should make for a lively event!.....