Why Experienced Type 1 Diabetic can not be a CDE

Why Experienced Type 1 Diabetic can not be a CDE; Just a question.

I always try to reach out for Diabetics and help them especially in communities that don't know the alphabetic about Diabetes control.

Here in Middle east; if you ask 9 out of 10 Diabetics, what is your correction or sensitivity factor or how you correct your blood sugar - if you ask what is your insulin to Carbs Ratio - or how to calculate the insulin on board, what to do if you wanna exercise within two hours from eating etc...they will not answer and the rule of CDE is almost not existed at all in most of middle east countries.
Diabetics left mostly to mixtard or steady doses of fast acting insulin where they have to eat like elephants to cover it up.

I am trying to help by writing articles in both Arabic and English but still too many can not be reach by internet.

I have contacted every possible Diabetes related institution to accept me for CDE exam but always comes the weird condition that I have to come from a medical background; which is not possible as I am an 45 years old engineer.
You know what; I always find engineers are much better in calculating, estimating and guessing factors like I mentioned above>>>>look at Dr. (Eng.) Bernstein..
Anyway sorry to write too much but this is something I always wanted to release out and talk about and I really wish if someone can lead me to a method that enables me to get the CDE certificate in order to help others the right way.

Someone on another site wrote a blog post a while ago about why you need a medical degree to be a CDE. She'd been of the opinion that you don't need one, until she was already a nurse and getting the hours required to be a CDE.

I can't find the post, but she basically said that, as a CDE, she'd be responsible for T1 and T2 patients, and that the various conditions and medications that the name "diabetes" shares need to be known to a CDE, not just the T1 stuff.

Dear Guitarnut,
most of the time type 2 is much easier to be managed than type 1 but anyway I am talking about giving the chance to someone who has the knowledge, exp. and of course diabetes to get examined and have the chance to help his or her community especially where is no such proffession …as in egypt, or as in phillipine.

CDE is not meant to be a dr; but only meant to assist Dr. dr and patient to achieve max. Benifit from treatment plan.

I hate to say this, but the CDE has become a "trade," essentially a job requiring specific manual skills and special training. As a certification, the major purpose of the accreditation is to establish a protected monopoly on the market. In the US, both dieticians and CDEs have as trades have taken this approach. Dietitians in particular have been extremely aggressive in protecting their hold on the market getting laws established in many states upholding their monopoly on nutrition advice. The CDE situation is more complicated as the trade is in a dire crisis, unable to attract new members and generally unable to support societal needs for diabetes education with the monopoly business model. Despite this they still cling to the model requiring a "medical" education. There has been talk about allowing "lay" educators, but as far as I can tell, not much has happened.

In the US, attempting to providing dietary, nutrition or diabetic education without the accreditation is likely to lead to prosecution. It doesn't matter what you know. In my view, the only alternative in the US is to provide education through "protected" communications. You can't teach a class or do one-on-one training, but you can write a book (and sell it) and write free information on the web. That is what I would recommend you do.

Thanks a lot Mr. Brian, really it is a great reply and to the point.
I do write free information in the web and I do write a book (almost finished 50% of it) cos I do not have other choice to spread the knowledge for who need it here in middle east.
Thanks again.

I get this same question about the profession I work in (special education). People go, "I'm good with kids, I live with a disability myself, the teachers out there are doing a bad job, and they complain there aren't enough special education teachers. So why won't they let me do it without all this teacher training and certification stuff?"

I think the answer in both cases is likely that there is stuff that goes on behind the scenes that most people have no idea about. Someone may know what works for them, and maybe even what works for most people. But will they know what to do when presented with a student or a patient who has, for whatever reason, extremely different needs? Will they know how to work with other professionals (if necessary) to determine and then implement a plan of action? Will they know how to deal with someone who has multiple issues which compound one another? With people (whether those they directly work with or relatives) who have not dealt with whatever changes need to be made?

Sure, someone can say, "I've been blind for 30 years and can teach braille better than X teacher." What they usually mean is they could teach braille to a student who is similar to themselves. But what happens when they are presented with a student who has a learning disability, a developmental delay, limited use of their hands (or all three!), or a student whose parents are not open to the possibility that their child could benefit from braille? Or a teenager who simply hates reading and refuses to put in any effort? Are they able to document their progress and communicate what they are teaching to other teachers, both those who are experienced with special education as well as general education teachers who may have no clue? Are they fully aware of all the responsibilities a classroom teacher faces and what is and is not realistic to ask them to take on (I certainly wasn't until I completed student teaching myself!). Are they able to take a student's progress, or lack thereof, and turn it into a plan of future action? Are they aware of and able to keep on top of research related to their area of teaching? Are they able to effectively document everything, including documentation which may be required by a particular district or government?

In most cases, when I've actually talked to people, the answer has been no. A teacher can't really be selective and go, "Well, I can teach X student braille because they are similar to me and they are enthusiastic ... but all the others, another teacher can handle them."

I think it's similar with a CDE. (And, I may be wrong, but I thought only a nursing credential was required? Not a full medical degree?) We see a CDE doing only what they have done while in contact with us. In reality, there is a TON more than goes on behind the scenes. They deal with a wide spectrum of patients, some similar to you but many very, very different. Not only different types of diabetes and different personalities and mindsets, but also compounding medical conditions which may have an impact on their diabetes control. Sure, maybe you in fact could do a fine job at being a CDE, but considering there are CDEs (and teachers) out there who don't do a great job (and there are also ones who are fantastic!), the certifying body has to make sure that there is some sort of minimal standard in place. If they open the test to anyone, I think the overall quality of the profession would decrease. It's not really possible to open the exam to you and not simultaneously open it to almost anyone who wants to take it. (You could say limit it to people who have had T1 for X years. But what about T2s? What about parents of kids with T1s? What about someone who is just interested and had done a lot of their own reading and studying?)

I will say that I do think it's GREAT when people with diabetes go into the medical profession. They have an insight and understanding of their patients that it's impossible for most medical professionals to have. I've found, as a special education teacher (currently working in the adult rehabilitation system) with a disability myself, students and their families open up to me in ways they don't to other professionals. So I think it's great! But I also fully understand the need for formal credentials. I'm working in a field right now that doesn't have any formal standards (assistive technology specialist) and while it's enabled me to enter the field and most AT specialists are highly qualified and fantastic, it's also enabled some others to enter who really have no clue what they are doing (yes, even though they themselves have a disabilities), which presents a huge disservice to the students they work with.

Anyway, just some (very long) thoughts from someone who has discussed such topics in a slightly different context! :)

Belila,

You might be interested to read the story of Wil Dubois, a type 1 diabetic and "Diabetes Coordinator." Wil works in a clinic in New Mexico that serves a local population than is poor and also struggling with diabetes. Wil is an author of several books about diabetes.

This column, written in 2006, tells his story and addresses the sam... He would like to sit for the CDE test and receive the credential if he can prove he has the knowledge but he is not a nurse or dietitian. He's frustrated by the same established requirements as you, but has found a way to help people in his commmunity with the knowledge he's learned from living with T1D 24/7/365.

That being said, I think that Jen makes some persuasive arguments for the broader knowledge and experience required to receive any credential. Maybe you can develop a work-around like Brian suggests or Wil has done with his career.

I don't disagree that having CDEs credentialled as nurses is useful because of the large amount of static we are dealing with with diabetes. "My BG is mysteriously high" can mean a "normal" diabetes challenge *or* it may mean an infection, stress, maybe some other condition that a nurse or doctor would need to be able to evaluate. It is likely also important that there be a system of credentialling in place in order to insure their activities should anyone want to sue them should a problem arise. At the same time, I have no really engaged with CDEs that much. I have a card for the nurse at my [new] doctor's office but got the usual "wow, everything looks great, let us know if you need anything" but I will just call Medtronic to arrange the new CGM rather than the doc b/c Medtronic will be less work and I'm a slacker.

I like answering questions and kibbitzing online but have no idea how to approch many issues with T2 or the other treatments available for that. Same thing with mental health issues as my approaches may not work for everyone.

Great post, Jen and I see all of your points. I worked in Mental Health throughout my career and as "self help" became popular watched people who thought, "I can help other people" just because they had a talent, an instinct for it and perhaps had gone through travails of their own. Then along came both online counselors and "life coaches" and I won't even begin to say what I think of those because it would violate terms of service. But that "talent" and that personal experience are extremely valuable and can't be learned in school. But starting with that then going on and learning a professional approach is a great combination. I helped develop a Recovery Model program and did training for consumers who wanted to work in mental health and they are doing a great job, bringing themselves as role models, that strong empathy combined with knowledge of counseling dos and donts and access to referral resources when needed.

So I feel there is a middle ground between "anyone can do it" and "they have to be medical professionals". There should be some sort of training program that someone like the OP could take that would provide the wide knowledge and professional expertise needed. I've never worked with a CDE but my understanding is that they work closely with doctors and nurses. Part of professional training is knowing when you need to refer out. As a mental health professional, for example, I worked only with adults, so would refer out a child that came for help. I also am not a medical professional and while I have some knowledge of medications it is not my field of expertise so would refer clients to a psychiatrist to discuss medicine issues. Similarly a CDE could refer the patient to a doctor or PA or nurse when issues came up of a wider medical nature.

I do wish such a training program existed because, Belila, you have so much to offer and it sounds like your expertise is very much needed where you live. Perhaps Terry's post about someone who found a way to do this (even though it was in a different country) will help you. I tell my students that sometimes you have to be creative in finding the perfect niche for your skills and talents, sometimes needing to practically invent a position and then sell yourself. Good luck! Your heart is definitely in the right place.

Another way to go is to completely go outside the CDE idea by forming some kind of support group or mentoring program. You could advertise it as something like "facilitated by a Type 1 diabetic with x number of years experience."

My CDE has been t1 for almost 40 years… They’re out there

But yes she first had to become aRegistered nurse, and then was able to qualify to take the cde program… Just like anyone else would have had to

Jen, great reply and I really read it twice…but what you say about me going to 13 Drs in 2 years to convince them to give me insulin as my c peptide test was 0.12 and finally when I find one who agrees he put me on mixtard where I had no control at all for another year of torture.
unless I read and search here n there and studied in a condensed way to know how to get to 5.7 a1c.
almost all Drs. I went to after changing the mixtard - gave steady dose of fast insulin three times a day; never talked about IC ratio, factors, dawn phenomenon, iob or whatever…I swear not even one out of all these physicians knows about those issues or give a dam about spending sometime to educate the patient…so how these credited and educated drs treating other diabetics…so poor those diabetic really.
Part of my activities is that I am enrolled in an Arabic group for parents to type 1 diabetics and I can not believe how much these poor parents have such lack of information about their kids’ diabetes cos Drs. Do not know or dont tell in details cos they have no time…In this part of the world, things are really different and the need of someone who knows how to just teach diabetics or parents of diabetics how to deal with the disease …that need is very imminent and so important.
Thanks for input a lot…I really learn from it…

Thanjs s lot Terry I heard about wil but never read his story which I will do tonight to know about such a great man…thank u again

From what I know here in Canada : a CDE can be a Registered Nurse , a Reg Dietitian , a Pharmacist ...and get further trained by insulin pump companies to " teach insulin pumping " .

Not that much…no…I am just very curious about D and about diabetics who suffer that much looking for light at end of an endless tunnel.

Hi Zoe, it is a shame that I did not see your reply yesterday , I apologize for that - your reply is a great relief for me and give me hope and what you said is exactly what I wanted to say.
I had an advice here to read about William Dubois which I did all night yesterday and it was amazing to know about such person and his dedicated work to his society and his talking about CDE barriers that they made to close it around themselves, just like we have in Engineering ...same concept but the people that they know and have the experience; those people only counts at the end when advice needed.
I am trying to do what you said, involved in many groups in facebook and twitter, also I write in English in my blogspot and in Arabic in a very known medical web site here.
Also I am writing a simplified book in Diabetes in Arabic , so people can benefit from it.
Thank you again for your fantastic reply and have a good day Madam.

It’s just the world we live in my friend… Just as the carpenter or pipe-fitter or welder or whatever doesn’t just get to be the engineer like you are once they have enough experience even though they are the ones doing the “real work.” Just as the nurse doesn’t automatically become the doctor, the sailor to the captain etc. all of these things require the additional training to get the credentials even though life’s experience is far better training than formal education is in many cases. If its your dream, follow it even though its not an effortless transition. If you have what it takes to be a mechanical engineer I am certain you could manage to fulfill the prerequisite requirements to become a CDE if that’s your goal. Good luck, Sam

Thanks Sam, no it is not a dream for me , IT IS A WISH that I can be able to help the diabetics that I see here in a desperate situation with mixtard prescription that does not change for 5 years; though their a1c is above 10...cases like that here are numerous. CDE is an invented profession but it is not as being a Dr. Or engineer or so..it is like being a supervisor in engineering if you have the talent and experience you can be a team leader, foreman then a supervisor.

anyway I will think something else to Fulfill that need for support...by the way it is never about money.I am making a decent living being an engineer..it is a burning desire to be in the side of diabetics who need to know and cant find the info.
thanks again for great n realestic reply Sam.