At my wits end

Type 2
1

I know I never come on here anymore and normally when that is the case and I post again.....I get ignored. But I need to get this out so I will post anyhow.

Today my new DR, tells me that latest A1C was 7 something. I can't remember what. I think low 7's. My one before that was like 5 something. Anyhow. I have a new dr (who isn't really a diabetes expert, she is just a primary care one but I wanted a girl dr and close to home), So I talk to her today and she wants to increase my met ( I am on er 1500) - I have a very hard time swallowing the pills. In fact, I actually gagged on one very badly the other day and threw up water etc all over. I have a big struggle taking those pills every day. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to swallow them. I told her I do not want any more Met because of how big the pills are.She said either that or make diet changes. I hardly eat anything now as it is!!! I finally got to a place where I eat enough calories that I have SOME energy before my calories were too low for my weight (I am thin 115 lbs) and I was always exhausted. I feel better if I eat more but unfortately than the A1C goes up. When I had that 5, I had to eat very restrictive low carb. Well, I feel crappy with no carbs. It is seriously NOT worth that 5 A1C. What good is a 5 A1C if you feel like death all the time? So she says we can add Januvia ( I think that is what it was - she said it works on the pancreas). I ask her if the pill was small and she said yes. So I go to my pharmacy to pick up- it is 82 bucks!!!! And that is with my insurance. I said NO WAY. That is ridiculous. I can't afford that (well I COULD but I think it is ridiculous to pay that much). My met is like not even $2.

SO now I have to call her back and ask if there is something else. I am getting really frustrated. What I am supposed to do? Starve myself to death just so I can get the "perfect" A1C? Also, she said my bad cholesterol was 91 and for diabetics it is supposed to 70. Wtf? None of my old drs ever complained about my cholesterol. They all said it was perfect. I am seriously at my wits end. My BG could be high if I eat nothing. The drs don't take stress or hormone changes into consideration. I was finally feeling better. I switch from a vegan diet to a vegetarian one and was finally getting more protein and feeling better because I was able to add more calories with low carb dairy foods. There are seriously no answers for me. Also why the hell can't they make the metformin smaller?? Sorry I am just really upset.

Some one on an FB diabetes group said she was taking amaryl
and the pill was small. She also takes the same met I take.

ALso I just tested out of curiousity and I am 161 I ate a small apple 3 hours ago!!! Myy stomach is empty and growling!!!I walked and shopped downtown after work and I walked from the train to the pharmacy. At least half an hour of walking and all I get is a 161???? I really don't know what else to do. I am not rewarded for cutting portions and not rewarded for getting exercise in. I don't want to lose any weight. I finally got my butt back and now that I am getting more calories my hair is starting to grow in better. I am NOT giving that up. I am getting very burned out on having such a restrictive diet - I am not allowed to eat anything I enjoy and even the stuff that is allowed and I enjoy doesn't always help either. I stopped testing because I starve myself to death have a high number. (and please don't anyone say I could start eating meat - I know there are lots of vegetarian haters on here. I CAN'T eat meat so if you are going to go veg hater on me don't bother commenting)

Sorry I am very upset because it seems like there are no answers for me. *crying*

2

KimKat, I am so sorry for your troubles. I'm sure there are others who are more experienced who can give you advice on your situation. I know my mom's BG creeps upward or downward when she misses a meal. So I am not surprised that with exercise and a small apple your BG is 161.

In my opinion you need to see an endo or at least an internist for your diabetes---someone who can give you specialized guidance. Diabetes is different for everyone and doctors who are knowledgeable and compassionate. Even then, some endos are still "old school" and not open to new ideas--I know from experience this issue.

3

Thanks Kate. Weird too think that not eating enough AND exercise is the devil. That is what is hard. I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I try to eat enough, I have to worry about high BG. If I don't eat at all or exercise (the only exercise I do is walking I don't have the strength or energy to do anything else), than I STILL have to worry about high BG?? Than what CAN I do??? Sigh. Sometimes I can eat more carbs or a bigger portion and it will be BETTER than it will if I do not exercise or eat less. I don't get it. I feel like the dr is mad - like I am not taking care of my diabetes and I am. The last time I asked my last dr if I should see an endo she said no. And I think you need a referral from your primary. So I am thinking my primary isn't going to do that. Anyhow, thank you for responding. It really means something to do because there are many cliques on here and unless you are a regular you don't get any responses (or I get responses from people want to throw meat at me because it is low carb)

4

Could you ask for insulin? It would allow you to not starve, feel well, and manage your blood sugar at the same time. Price-wise, it probably isn't much of a help, but if it's what your body needs, you may want to think about it. Maybe your doctor could let you try a sample pen of levemir or lantus to see if it helps any.

5

I agree Roodgirl. I would find an endo and request insulin. I couldn't take metformin. My body completely rejected it--too many gastro problems. Currently I'm still on diet and exercise, but my BGs are bouncing all over the place. That's the reason I will be asking for insulin.

I'm in the same boat of starving myself and getting nowhere other than stressing me out with hypos. KimKat it's going to be o.k. But sometimes it takes a while to get the right meds and the right doctor. I know it's hard right now, but it's going to be o.k.

6

I am looking up the diabetes specialists (endo, metabolism etc), There are few young looking girl doctors. I am calling tomorrow if I can.

I did ok on the met as after as no tummy issues - it just doesn't seem to be working any more. It worked great at the beginning and now it doesn't seem to help anymore.

I did ask my old dr about testing my C-petitide again like they did when I was first diagnosed. I was making plenty of insulin than. I found it weird that they all say there is no reason to test it again. I mean, couldn't it change?? I didn't agree with that. If they retest, they could find out if it is decreaseing and I could use insulin. I would rather jab myself at this point than to continue to swallow those big pills. Tonight I cut them both in half- it only made it slightly easier because I have to swallow four times instead of two.

I know! This is really stressing me. I have enough stress right now. My cat is getting old and starting to "loss it" - she yowls a lot and I don't get much rest or relaxing. She constantly bugging me and it is really stressing me out. Of course the drs say she is healthy except for kidney disease so I am stuck with this. So that doesn't help my stress level either or the fact that I don't get great sleep because I get interupted by her yowls. (they are LOUD).

I have been on Met for four years. It just seems to stop working as well last year. The dr just says that is normal and the diabetes "gets worse" and you can't do anything about it. Sorry but I don't believe that. I think the meds stop working as well.

I never have any hypos - always high.

7

hey sweetie---we got really big really fast and for some of us oldtimers it takes awhile to catch up.....

Now---I'm a T2 on diet and exercise only for 7 years so far, so I can't advise you on meds. But I do understand some things about starving yourself and exercise.

When I was first dx, food was my enemy. Starvation was one of many suicide methods I contemplated until I read up on how your body starts to eat itself which sounded really painful! And also, I am one of those for whom, to this day, exercise gives me a spike for awhile. It is not uncommon. You are not alone!

Now, I don't remember all the science, though I read up enough to be a thorn in my Doc's side back then, but basically, when a diabetic tries to starve herself, the liver kicks in to compensate and doesn't always get it right. You undoubtedly need to eat more. And for the exercise spike, what I do is sit quietly and comfortably with a cup of green decaf tea for 30" or so after exercise and then test. My # has always come down by then. And the exercise is always worth it for many other reasons! But testing and experimenting is the only way you will figure out what works for you.

Have you been able to test enough to figure out how many carbs/day work for you? It can vary wildly for each of us, but most of us need to limit our carb intake.

I'm so sorry you feel judged by "vegetarian haters". I wasn't aware there were any. It is tricky to get enough protein if you are vegetarian but in no way impossible with a little attention to that issue! We have plenty of vegetarians here and I am sorry you haven't been able to connect with them. I eat only 2-3 oz of meat/day anymore, but am not a vegetarian. I'll see if some of my old vegetarian friends are available to give you advice.

And then it's testing enough to find out what works for your very individual body. For instance, the only fruits I can eat are berries. But it took me awhile to figure that out. So I miss peaches, but it's worth it for me. My daily "dose" of blueberries is mixed up with a TBSP of ground flax, cinnamon, cumin, ginger, turmeric, almond milk and heavy cream. It's to-die-for yummy, so one finds substitutes.

Sorry I can't advise on docs. Except: keep trying. It took me years to find one who actually listened to what I said and Heard it!.....

Please keep us posted, my dear.....Blessings...Judith in Portland

8

I'm gonna throw it out there that you might have LADA. If you're a young slim sounding person, even if you had a normal c-peptide before? Type 1 can hit you like a truck at any time even if you have what they consider LADA . LADA isn't a like actual different disease it's just a name for slow onset type 1 diabetes. I'd say if you used metformin for 4 years and all the sudden it no longer works? That sounds like LADA to me.

Your story sounds familiar to mine though I was unable to get below 7.2% a1c while treated on type 2 drugs and I was literally starving (I'm also a vegetarian because meat makes me ill) . I'd say , if you have to, beg for autoantibody testing. Because I'm a type 1 and I had a similar situation (though I only let that type 2 misdiagnosis crap go on for a few months) though I got to an endo that understood and really helped me out.

Melitta really needs to get herself into this thread she could help you a lot here too.

9

KimKat,

Sorry you are having such a hard time. You really sound like an excellent candidate for insulin. With an A1c of 7 something and met is not working, and you are not eating (you do need to eat), then I truly believe your next best step is to start insulin. Find a dr to work with you.

Hugs.

10

Ok, you may never find the "answer," but you can find your way. Although one path may appear to be blocked, there are many paths open, you just need to find them. So first, metformin 850 mg comes in large pills and metformin 500 mg comes in smaller pills. I've shown the metformin 500 pill below. You can get a prescription for just 500 mg pills, you can even take up to five a day. If you can't handle the small pill then get a pill cutter. You can do this.


That being said, you can't let this whole thing make you feel powerless. You need to decide that you will do what is necessary and feel empowered to do it. If your doctor won't help you then you get another doctor. And if that means you need to consider an injected medication, whether it is Victoza or insulin, you can do that. Because you are strong.

11

Kim,
On the older kitty issue, have you been able to get her to a vet for a checkup? The yowling may be an indication of health issues like a bladder infection. If that is not an issue it maybe that she has kitty Alzheimer's and is having night time anxiety issues. There are meds that can help with that as well as strategies to help her feel more secure. Your vet should be help.
Might help lower your stress levels, getting a good night's sleep will help both of you.
(((Hugs)))


Sorry just reread your post see you have been to vet. Have you asked about about feline Alzheimer's and possible meds / coping strategies?

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/behavior-problems-older-cats

12

I agree with what Sensorium said, has your doctor considered that you might be Type 1. At 115 lbs and I'm guessing you to be a young person you are not the typical T2. I realize that its possible but small young people with T2 are the exception rather the rule.

I guessed you are being treated as a Type 2 because of the amount of Metformin that you are taking but if its possible that you might be T1 then increased doses of Met are not going to help.

13

thank you judith. Well when I was a regular on here a few years back there were a few people (one in particular) who didn't like me because I was vegan.

I am trying very hard to get the protein in because I feel better. I try to get a whey protein shake that is 15 (and low carb) and easy to drink for me. Plus I eat the low fat (not non fat - that stuff tastes terrible) greek yougurt for lunch - at least during my working days. I have to admit I have never been one for "lunch" on the weekends. I sleep in and like "brunch" I am one of those people who is rarely hungry and it has always been that way.

I did start eating more and I was doing better but now it seem the met just isn't doing anything anymore. For example, I tested yesterday at the 161 and I was starving. I had a small corn tostada which I do well with beans and I like mexican food. (I am gluten free) I slept in until 9am ish and my stomach is growling. I test - 176!!!! Why? I don't get it. I seriously belive that my cortisol levels increase during the night and cause this. I didn't have this problem when I first started 4 years ago. I would wake up in the 90s or even 80s and I wasn't eating that much. I cant win. It keeps changing!

Oh my - i did the same thing. When I was first dx'd, I was afraid to eat anything. The dr didn't explain ANYTHING to me. I was going around look for foods with NO sugar AND No carbs - lol! Well, nothing like that existed. Just water. I was terrified to eat anything and I basically starved myself. I was 130 lbs when I was dx'd and I dropped 30 lbs in a few months from not eating. Than I was TOO skinny

Yesterday night I almost returned back to that state I looked in my refrig and started crying and I was afraid to eat anything. I know it sounds stupid but I do better when I do not know what the number is. I still watch what I eat but I get so stressed and depressed looking at the damn numbers - why should I bother? I can't fix it no matter what I do.

Oh yes I miss pineapple so bad. I nibble on some now and than. It is like taking a shot to the veins. I feel so much better. But is not like I am out there ignoring it like my cousin does - drinking regular Coke and stuff.

In the beginning I did do alot of testing to figure out what works. And I found stuff that worked but it isn't working anymore. What is left to do?

On your comment about the liver: because Met works on the liver. Could it be when I do not eat for many hours that that is negatively affecting how it performs on the liver? If so, why the hell don't the drs tell you this?

14

Stress can really sabotage your diabetes care. I would not stress about the seven A1C it is just going to make things much worse. I would get a pill cutter and cut the pills into half and half again or mush them up in some applesauce and get them down. If your pills only cost $2 it will be worth it.
I have a feeling that you are giving up on the Metformin. If I were you I would make sure to get it is. You have diabetes and need to take your medication on a regular schedule in order for it to work. If you are not getting it down then you will have highs.
Get yourself to an Endocrinologist asap.
I would eat more than an apple if I was exercising. Try some protein and then test before and after exercise until you get your numbers where you want them. I think testing a lot in your case is warranted.
It sounds like the major thing going on is deep. Maybe you don't want diabetes and feel like taking the medication just makes the diabetes more real and it is like that for a lot of people. I don't think you should try other medications or refuse medications due to pill size because they can always be reduced by cutting. You have diabetes and getting a 5 A1C isn't easy for anyone. Don't give up, just get the tools that you need, medication, testing and exercise because these are the proven tools to lower the blood glucose, plus your diet, of course.
Diabetes is difficult but you are stuck with it so don't trip yourself up. Take a deep breath and do what you have to do. I would get some help with the stress component because that will make a difference.

15

Yes, I did that already. I have spent over a thousand dollars on all these tests. My regular vet (who is super expensive) didn't want to test her urine because we already knew she had Stage 2 Kidney. I got so frustrated that I took her elsewhere to a place that specializes in cats and even though she doesn't show symptoms of having a UTI the vet said we might want to test to be sure. I told her yes go ahead - well she had one!!! Damn, was I mad at my old vet. He loves to to order all these expensive tests and the SAME ones all the time. And everything is fine.

So, she went through her round of pills that had lessened her yowling at least at night - omg, it was SO horrible before!! I am getting more sleep than I did previously. I went out and bought $300 noise cancelling headphone and I walk around my apartment with them on so I don't have to hear her yowl.

Her thryoid is slightly hyper but not at the treatment level yet. Grrrr...

So, yes, I did discuss the feline cognitive dysfunction syndrome with the new vet and I personally believe this is what she has. She used to be a very well trained cat. For example, all I would have to do is shake the squirt bottle her way and she would stop what she was doing. Doesn't work anymore. She will try to crawl on top of my laptop and I have to continuously squirt her and she keeps coming back for more. I could be typing a post like this and have to stop and grab the squirt bottle 20 times. That is not like her. She doesn't sleep much anymore. She used to be a very independent type of kitty now she "clings" to me to the point of being very annoying.

She doesn't like her KD dry food and the new vet said to just feed her what she will eat because she was losing weight. So I starting giving her Fancy Feast and she doesn't always eat all that. I switched back to her other grain free dry food Salmon flavor that she ate before and I see her eating the dry more now. I always free fed dry all her life. I am ok giving her the moist but she has become so picky I feel like I can never do anything good enough. I try to remind myself that she is just getting old. But the yowling, clinging makes it very hard for me to rest and relax and reduce my stress levels. there is no test for the cognitive dysfunction syndrome. I know that is it because she is very much like this page here. http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/behavior-problems-older-cats

It is now getting to the point where I have to dump the entire litter box once a week. It used to be good for two weeks. (It is just her now - my other two cats died). I use the Feline Pine so I can monitor how much turns into the "dust" so I can tell how much she is peeing. A few times recently I came home to poop on my new white rug!!! She never did that before and it was the day AFTER I refreshed with a whole new clean box.

I feel like I am fighting a battle I can't win. But other than the kidney disease, they say her health is great. Which is why I am stuck. The vets don't take into account my quality of life though. I have to think of my health also. If it wasn't for these noise cancelling headphone, I might lose it. I tried that Feliway stuff - did nothing.

16

Yes, this has been mentioned a zillion times on here before to me when I was a regular a few years back and no offense but I got sick of hearing it. You might be right but the as far as the drs are concerned I am Type 2. I make plenty of insuilin (or I did when I was first dx'ed ) I am not young. I am 44. My grandmother had diabetes. A few years ago when I was first dx'd I had no insurance so I could not go and see a specialist. Now I have job so I am going to get in to see one. I am planning to make an appointment with a diabetes specialists (endo, metabolic diabetic department) and I am going to insist on more testings. I am not paying for Jaunvia crap unless I can stop taking those big ■■■ met pills. I seriously get so stressed trying to swallow them. I throw one up because I almost choke on it at least ONCE a week.

The drugs worked in the beginning and I think they (the drs) go on that to say "Oh yeah she is type 2. Hey we were right." Why doesn't it matter so much to them to say I am a certain "type"? Shouldn't that be treating by symptoms? geez.

I would be happy if I could have some insulin. I have read some stories that people felt better just having some. The only way I feel good is if I eat more carbs. Of course that is not good for the blood sugar. What good is good number if I feel exhausted?

17

Thanks Just lookin. I know. I hope to get more specialized attention when I see a REAL diabetes dr.

18

Yes, those small ones are the ones I took when I was first dx'd. I was able to swallow those easier. I take a lot of vitamins too but I try to stick to capsule form as they are easier for me to handle.

I take 1500 ER met and they are these big huge pills at 750 each (horse pills). I take at night because it takes me so long to swallow them. I was taking two of the regular met when I started and it was working. Than I started getting worse and the dr added a third pill to be taken at lunch - well I kept forgetting to take that third pill so she said I could try the ER ones. ■■■■, those things are big but I liked the idea of only have to remember to take it once at night because than I have it in my pill box.

The ER seemed to working for a while and I changed my diet to get more protein (which I knew I need to do) and try to stay low carb. Well, that worked for like six months now it is grotey again. I have had alot of stress recently. I moved a few months ago and problems with my cat. But I had stress before that too (of a differnt source and I moved to get away from that stress which is better for me) and I had good a1c'S. I actually get more walking in now and I am dismayed that my numbers are not reflecting it.

Last night I cut my ER ones in half but I am not sure if you are supposed to do that because doesn't to ruin the whole "extended release" part. I thought it needed to be whole. Either way it was still difficult because it means to have to swallow FOUR times instead of two. sigh

19

I know Stemwinder but docs aren't listening so far. I hope when I see the specialist that she will do more indepth testing for me

I am not young. I am 44. I have always been thin all my life because I was an active person. Eat a healthier diet than most people I know. The most I weighed in my life was 130. I am 5'4". I weight 115 now which I am happy with because I dropped to under 100 after my dx because I am too scared to eat anything and no clothes fit me. I have always had a fast metabolism I guess. I hardly gain weight except now any weight I gain is on my stomach. grrrr..

Yes, I am getting sick of the met. If it were working still it would be different but isn't. And I will admit to not being perfect. I have some treats etc. Who doesn't? But I am not out pigging out on pizza and Cokes either.

I am crossing my fingers that a specialist with help me.

20

You can buy a pill cutter at the drug store, then you can chop your Met in half to make it easier to swallow. I take Met and dont find it a big pill, but we are all different. As a kid I didn't like taking pills so my mother would crush them between two spoons and mix jam with the bits and that way I could get it down, no problem. You could try that too. Yes Januvia is a small pill.

I think you need some real help from a diabetic educator or endo, someone more skilled with diabetes than a regular doctor.