Covid-19 Nightmare

Is there a particular discussion here on Covid-19? If so, where???
Anyway, want to share this:

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I live in Idaho, and it is this bad. My husband and I hardly leave the house. We live in a college town, so more people are vaccinated here than in other parts of the state. The Governor won’t even say that we should wear masks. So many here deeply believe in conspiracy theories. So far not many have died in my county.

We have a beach house in Oregon. In that county many, many people have died in the past month. Most of the covid patients are unvaccinated.

We have lost friends in both states, because we can’t be friends with people who believe in conspiracy theories and who won’t vaccinate. Our lives and those of others are important to us. We can no longer tolerate those who are willingly endangering us.

We are just hoping that we won’t be needing emergency treatment, because it is very uncertain if we could get it in Idaho, Oregon, or Washington State. The hospitals in Washington are filled with unvaccinated covid patients from Washington and Idaho.

I have worked extremely hard at staying as healthy as I can while having diabetes. I refuse to be killed from Covid because of other people’s stupidity.

I will understand if this post is taken down.

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I’m watching the insanity right here in Canada with disbelief. Alberta is currently in the middle of it and one of the political parties’ platforms in the recent election was “no vaccine passports”. That’s it! And they got seven percent of the vote!!

People are making a public health emergency into a political thing for some reason. Maybe to prove a point?

I guess if enough people get sick and die, the folks who refused vaccination will be culled from the herd more quickly. But of course those same people clog up the ERs and ICUs unnecessarily, so god help anyone who has a heart attack or a stroke or a car crash.

/rant over

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We have finally turned the tide in California. In losangeles county where I live the numbers are down.
It doesn’t mean there isn’t lots of stupidity.
There still is. But we have mask mandates right now and for the most part people wear them while inside.

They pulled back on the mandates for a while and numbers went up, so we just got to ride it out this way.

People are afraid of the vaccines. Some of that I understand, but really Covid is so much more worrisome than any side effects.
People get their news and info from face book and memes.
Those things are designed to scare people.
Scaring people gets big ratings on tv and the internet and social media. It’s a cancer

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Could not have said this better Timothy.

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This is a scary time for all of us. We all know that people with diabetes statistically suffer more severe consequences if infected with Covid-19. The best thing we can do at this time is get the vaccination, wear a mask when around other people, and avoid crowded settings like football games.

I live in Multnomah County, Oregon (Portland). Over 70% of the population is fully vaccinated and 77% have taken at least one shot. People are generally wearing masks when out in public with the occasional nose escaping.

We still have a few empty hospital and ICU beds and crisis standards have been avoided so far. I wonder if people in Idaho and Alaska (also a crisis standards state) understand that this means that everyone in those states now has a do not resuscitate order in place if they end up in the hospital.

There’s a hint of a downturn in case rates and I hope that this trend can take hold.

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I live in NY. Most of the people who are vaccinated are NOT wearing masks or social distancing. The hospitalizations are mixed vaccinated and unvaccinated. Getting vaccinated doesn’t mean you cannot get Covid and it doesn’t mean your are not contagious. But, in NY as long as your are vaccinated, you can do anything you want.

Furthermore, there are a great number of people who have extreme allergies and advised by their doctors to wait for the Novavax vaccine.

Personally, I have seen many people be vaccinated without any side effects whatsoever. I have also seen people being hospitalized within hours of the vaccination. This is a matter that should be between a patient and doctor, not politicians.

John

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I understand your frustration! We have a county supervisor that stated early on that no one in San Diego had died from COVID. Everyone who had died had a pre existing condition so, people were dying from their condition not COVID.
I of course let him have it. Told him that after 50 years, I wasn’t going to let a virus cause my death. It is so frustrating that early on people were blaming people with conditions that increase the possibility of death for increase in deaths.
I mean really! Really, his thought process is that I am going to die from diabetes so if I get COVID that means it’s diabetes not COVID that is causing the problem? I have done everything in my power to stay safe. I work in a service industry so I go to work everyday. I have dealt with many, many people who don’t understand the face mask policies, the social distancing policies, the hand washing policies, the staying home as much as possible policies. I got my vaccine as soon as I could but now deal with people in the warehouse not wearing masks and not vaccinated. No I don’t have a special power and can tell who has and who hasn’t but I can tell that children under 12 can’t be vaccinated yet and there are kids running around, laughing, crying, yelling, you know being kids which is what kids are supposed to do but my feeling here is if you can’t leave them home (I get the single parent households or crazy work schedules) but they need a mask. And I see it all day long, kids with no mask. So I continue to double mask every day and I continue to move away from families with kids and no mask. Kinda sad because I love kids but I need to think about my safety because not everyone else is.
All I can say, is do whatever you need to do to stay safe! It’s all we can do.

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Waiting right now to hear from our son who either has a cold or covid. He had been very fatigued and now has congestion etc. We see him all of the time because he is working on our land. He was here yesterday. Of course he and his soon to be wife are double vaccinated, and stay away from the public as much as possible, but not many people are vaccinated in the two counties in which we live, so it is still easy to be infected.

What a mess. I am very glad that you have been able to avoid catching covid even though you work in a very busy store. I am a bit surprised that Costco doesn’t require its employees to be vaccinated. Of course you would still have to deal with a lot of unvaccinated customers.

Yeah, I am hoping that the mandate requiring companies with more than 100 people will need vaccines or testing. Keeping my fingers crossed! You’d be surprised how many still haven’t done it. So I eat outside and avoid the break room at all cost.
I am hoping for good news on your end. The frustration for many is, even if you do everything you possible can, it only takes one person not following directions and you can be the unlucky one. I am praying you are all ok. The few people I know who have had breakthrough cases have been okay and have been able to recover at home. But none of them have any other health issues. Hoping for a good outcome for you and your family.

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Thanks Sally. Our son called this afternoon and said that he doesn’t have covid. We are relieved that he just has a cold.
It sounds like you are doing all of the right things to stay well. I hope that the rules tighten so that you and those you work with can stay well.

You are in my thoughts.

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Our state has one of the highest rates of vaccinations, has had a mask mandate in place since the beginning, And has one of the worse problems with covid right now.

We are being overwhelmed with cases and our hospitals are brimming and they have threatened to ration care soon… While vaccination cuts down your risk of ending up in the hospital or dying, it does not guarantee it. 17% of the people in our hospitals are vaccinated people.

But having a high rate of vaccination is not necessarily going to cut down on cases,we are out of control here and our governor has requested tourists stop coming. (Which hasn’t done much good, because people are selfish about having a vacation during a pandemic).

So being vaccinated would help more people to stay out of the hospital, help prevent deaths and free up medical staff, yes. But does it stop this massive spread of covid…nope. Blame that on the highly contagious Delta variant even if you are vaccinated.

Case in point…my brother in law had to have a heart procedure done. He got fully vaccinated back in April/May. He had to take a covid test and then stay home before the procedure and another test right before he went in for the procedure. They were really careful, limited who he came into contact with etc. Then he had to stay home to recover.7-10 days later he got covid and was pretty sick…not seriously, but pretty sick. 7-10 days after that his wife got it too although a very mild case.

They both were vaccinated, both had breakthrough cases and he definitely gave it to her, so vaccinated and contagious.

PS At this Point I think it’s pretty stupid to have different rules for vaccinated or the unvaccinated. Our governor is requiring a vaccine pass or negative test to eat at a restaurant,but he won’t let people be spectators at a sports game because vaccinated people can be contagious too… It just doesn’t make sense.

And yes I’m vaccinated but I wish that people would stop trying to pit the unvaccinated against the vaccinated. I will at this point do what I need to do to keep me safe.

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My understanding is that a minimum of 75% of the population would need to be fully vaccinated in order to allow for a level of herd immunity… the % may need to be higher. Hawaii had very few cases prior to this summer (comparatively), so it’s not surprising that there was a surge this summer with 30% of the population that had not had previous infections and not been vaccinated (Johns Hopkins says 68% of Hawaii is fully vaccinated).

Vaccinated people do not contract the virus as easily as unvaccinated people, so the virus peters out among vaccinated populations faster.

People who are vaccinated against measles can still get measles if they’re exposed - I know someone who had this occur. Vaccines are never 100%. Measles is more contagious than the delta variant of SARS-CoV2, and measles is also more deadly. However, due to high vaccinations, measles is uncommon in the United States and we did not wear masks and social distance to protect against measles prior to the COVID pandemic.

Our high rates of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths lie entirely at the feet of unvaccinated people and those who’ve influenced them.

Edit: just to be a clear - I am not anti-masks. I wear them to protect myself and my community. I just think masks are a mitigation measure while vaccines are the solution. I’m hopeful more people will get vaccinated in the next few months. I am very eager for vaccines to be approved for children (if they’re found to be safe). I’m looking forward to a day when SARS-CoV2 is not a big concern in our day-to-day lives and so mitigation measures are no longer necessary.

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Is that the percentage for herd immunity from the delta strain, or the original strain? I vaguely recall that the required percentage is something like 1 - 1/R0

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That’s a number from Eric Topol, but he’s more recently been quoted saying 85-90%. I guess each expert has their own estimate. I haven’t seen any lower than 75% though.

Essentially, it sounds like we need everyone who can get vaccinated to get vaccinated.

There are some European countries that are pretty close as well as UAE.

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Other states with high vaccination rates are experiencing the same surge as Hawaii. A huge increase in Covid cases and they are in areas where they had a lot of cases before. With Delta it’s highly contagious even if you are vaccinated, you can carry it and you can catch it.

Although luckily if you are vaccinated you are not as likely to get as sick or end up in the hospital or die.

That headline is sensationalist and misleading.

Here are quotes from within that article.

“Hospitals across the region are seeing full intensive care units and staff shortages are starting to affect care. Public officials are pleading with the unvaccinated to get the shots. Health care workers are coping with pent-up demand for other kinds of care that had been delayed by the pandemic…

Even though parts of New England are seeing record case counts, hospitalizations and deaths that rival pre-vaccine peaks, largely among the unvaccinated, the region hasn’t seen the impact the [delta variant wave has wrought on other parts of the country](COVID-19 deaths eclipse 700,000 in US as delta variant rages)…

“What we’ve learned with delta and looking beyond delta, is because that’s where our focus is as well, to really reach those levels of vaccination, to give you that true population level protection, you need to be in excess of 90%,” said Tom McCarthy, the executive director of the Rhode Island Department of Health COVID Response Unit…

“We have it in our power to end this needless suffering and heartbreak; a way to protect our health and that of the people we love; a way to give our heroic doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals a much-needed break; a way to protect our children – please get vaccinated today,” Maine’s Democratic Gov. Janet Mills said recently.”

To keep things in perspective, below is a comparison of the case counts by region:

The northeast is not soaring at the rate of other parts of the country with low rates of vaccination… None of the northeast states are over 70% vaccinated, and Vermont is very similar to Hawaii in that comparatively, that state has not had the surges other parts of the country has.

I don’t really understand what the point of your post was except to make people doubt vaccines…

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As I’ve said before.I am vaccinated. I did that because I think getting Covid would have been or will be worse for me and I still think that.

But so many seem or want to think the solve of Covid is vaccines. Obviously it’s not, it’s just a major tool in the tool chest. 70% isn’t enough, it needs to be 75% then it’s 90%. But then there will be another variant. Over 65 year olds for a booster, immune compromised (a lot were already getting it) oh, lets include at risk workers…even though they have yet to release any information that taking a booster when you are 30 and healthy helps at all.

Things are being decided by the seat of their pants because no one really knows the answer. I can’t fault them for that, although I really hate the hiding they do of the truth that some seem to do. You don’t think that the head of the CDC changing the recommendation to yes of whether it’s approved for the at risk non medical workers wasn’t political when the committee to overlook it said no to it?

  1. I think it will come down to having a vaccine or someone who has already gotten sick from it. Maybe boosters, but probably one that evolves like the flu vaccine versus the same shot again. But right now the same shot again might have to be the answer for some.
  2. Drugs to counteract the effects of Covid when you do get it
  3. Learning to live with the fact it’s always going to be out there, viruses don’t go back into the box. Hopefully over time we build some immunity to it.

Being vaccinated is not the complete answer to stopping it from spreading, other countries with high vaccination rates are having surges too. Less deaths, less hospitalizations but still a lot of people getting sick.

We still need some time to figure it out, how to stop it as much as possible, how to treat it so it’s not so life threatening for some. If you are comfortable with the vaccine right now being enough for yourself, then so be it. Everyone enjoys being able to do more and obviously your personal risk can be low. If you want to go to a football game, everyone else going is willing the risk too. But be considerate of the worker that might have to be there because they need a paycheck.

But I think all people need to be considerate of others, whether vaccinated or not. Too many people are dying and these are people that are peoples mom and dads, sisters and brothers, children and friends.

My friend just had someone come into work and their kid had an active case of covid, that person was vaccinated so they figured no problem. That’s what they the powers that be are telling people. She was sent home as soon as someone found out. And in a few days she tested positive for Covid. But in the meantime my friend was exposed and while her and her husband are vaccinated too, her husband has major COPD problems. Her mom had just got hospitalized with a bacterial infection and she couldn’t chance visiting her.

Vaccines do not stop the spread of Delta and is not stopping the surging going on. Yes, it might save your life.

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I can appreciate your response. There are a lot of unknowns right now, and everyone is just trying their best to manage the health risk while keeping their jobs and society in general functioning.

I’ve been frustrated by the CDC at times as well - it took them way too long to acknowledge the virus transmits via aerosols. We could’ve been addressing air quality indoors last summer, but that only started within the last few months.

The concern you mentioned about the CDC and boosters has been expressed by others. I’ve found Michael Osterholm’s podcast on the subject to be helpful. In fact, I think he’s been the most valuable resource during the pandemic. He’s had this weekly podcast since the beginning of the pandemic. He doesn’t always get everything right (tends to lean more cautious than other experts), but it is helpful to me to hear his thoughts. I’m not an epidemiologist so I don’t know the best ways to manage the risk. I think he makes every attempt to be apolitical. He does end each podcast on a very sentimental note which, turns out, isn’t my thing. Otherwise, I really appreciate them and highly recommend listening! You can also read the transcripts, but I guess I find the intonation helpful. (COVID-19 Podcasts and Webinars | CIDRAP)

With my lack of qualifications, I agree with you on all the numbered items in your post. I don’t think our views are inherently contradictory. I also hope that the less the virus circulates (because the population is more vaccinated), the less risk it is to us.

I don’t really understand why you think this is my perspective. I’ve actually never said that. I do not wear a mask when I am in a home/camping/hiking/etc with a couple of friends that I know are vaccinated (because vaccinated people are less likely to contract the virus). I always wear a mask at the grocery store or in any public indoor environment - it is the law here anyway.

This is likely to last years… I think it is important to manage the risk in a way that also takes into account the toll on your mental health of isolation. Otherwise, people won’t do anything at all because the restrictions are completely unreasonable! People will have different approaches to maintaining good quality of life despite the pandemic, but a vaccine will offer some protection when risk cannot be eliminated.

I don’t know what “powers that be” you’re referring to are, but that isn’t what people in my area are doing. The CDC advises the following for vaccinated people: " * If you are fully vaccinated, to maximize protection from the Delta variant and prevent possibly spreading it to others, wear a mask indoors in public if you are in an area of substantial or high transmission." This includes most places at the moment. [That being said, they’re also still recommending against N-95 masks because those are supposed to be reserved for medical workers - this thoroughly pisses me off because there has been plenty of time to ensure that there are enough N-95s to go around for anyone willing to use them].

I agree that the vaccines offer less protection from infection from the Delta variant than they did with prior variants. That is why mitigation measures are recommended and booster shots have been authorized for people who are in high-risk environments or are at high risk of serious illness. That doesn’t mean they don’t offer any protection against infection or that their only purpose is to protect against serious illness.

I hope that your friend has a mild case and does not pass it on to her family. I have known people with breakthrough infections as well. I am grateful that boosters are being made available to help reduce the likelihood of this occurring.

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Just to clarify
The quote
“If you are comfortable with the vaccine right now being enough for yourself, then so be it.”
This was not aimed at you. I probably should have worded it to “if people are comfortable”. I fully understand people want to be out and about. It was just stating if a person thinks the vaccine is enough for them, that is their decision. At this point for me that also includes people that have already been sick or choose not to get vaccinated. People that are not vaccinated at this point are mostly not going to change their mind especially with all the contrariness out there. I think it’s a medical decision and they have that right. But we have to make our decisions for what we think is our risk factor. But we still need some protections in place for others if they need it, frankly for me senor hours with less people I hope stays for a while.

But some of us who need to do more, or want to do more layers of protection. I consider myself in good health, but with my risk factors (type 1, age, weight) I don’t want to get sick if I can help it. I would rather the hospitals not be stressed and know more about care before I chance ending up there if I can help it. So yes I do errands, but I keep them short and I step away from people if they get too close, always masked, now with a N95 at certain locations. And I have attended some (smaller now) group meets outdoors only and distanced.

I think there are some people that just don’t care because they want “normal” back so bad so they pretend vaccination has solved the issue. or will solve the issue. I think people that are vaccinated need to acknowledge they can be contagious and give it to others and to show some care towards other people…

We have vaccine passes here which I think is ridiculous. Tourists can run around vaccinated and contagious and eat at restaurants and expose all sorts of people because they are not going to stay at their hotel when they are sick at all and ruin their vacation. They only become known when they get so sick they seek help. And it’s always a percentage of our daily cases. I am totally against vaccine passes, they are there just to try to give a carrot to get vaccinated and mask the problem, it’s totally stupid. Just open up the friggin restaurant for the ones that want to open up completely and the people that want to eat there. But it’s been eye opening how many jerky people are out there. You have to know a lot more tourists are sick running around that aren’t sick enough that they had to seek help. Actually I want the pretest requirement back, we had plenty of tourists and were already crowded and it worked much better.

The next point The “powers that be”. I knew I should have clarified that. When my brother in law got sick, he was told he should quarantine by the California contact tracers who were collecting information on breakthrough cases. but that anyone else in the household could go out and about because they were vaccinated. The CDC is also saying if you’ve been exposed wear a mask in public, but you only have to quarantine if you end up getting covid. In the same breath they know you can be contagious if you are vaccinated. So my sister in law was out shopping etc. She thought her allergies were acting up but a girlfriend suggested she get tested because of her husband having covid. She had a very mild case and didn’t know she had it and was out and about. Personally I think like so many out there this was a stick their head in the sand action because they prefer not to acknowledge the complete issues out there. I don’t agree with her actions, and her work also involves exposing a lot of people. Luckily she was mostly home because of her husbands procedure and not going to work.