Problems with Medtronic 670G: ("Beginner's frustration" and reps promising that will eventually go away...)


#26

This is exactly what I was wishing for. I mean, it has this:

Block Mode
The Block Mode feature allows caregivers, such as parents of a young child, to restrict access to critical pump settings.

Why can’t it have the opposite, as well? All it would take, really, is the ability to shift the target up or down. Not unlimited, but at least give us a range, say 100-140. A little leeway to accommodate those of us not in the center of the bell curve!


#27

Medtronics is not a favorite with me. However, I do believe that all those “protections” were placed in order to pacify the FDA in the approval process. They are all “cover my arse” type, similar to my CDE always being more concerned about my lows rather than deal with the highs that get me on the BG rollercoaster. The wrongful death suit is a greater motivator than pleasing users.


#28

I do think this motivates more medical providers than it should. How many lawsuits per 1000 patients with diabetes is the actuarial experience?

If it’s even one per thousand, how can they morally justify serving the other 999 with advice that, if followed, could lead many of us down the cruel path of secondary complications?


#29

I’m sure that’s right, nevertheless even in manual mode there are far more obstacles in the way of performing an action than there were with my older Paradigm pump. Every procedure related to delivery seems to end with an extra “do you really want to do this” confirmation screen on which the default is always “NO,” even if it has taken ten clicks to get there.


#30

Yep, I’ve been doing it this way on my Mac for a few years and it certainly WAS possible. But the last time I tried, last month, I think, my process failed. Not sure what changed and haven’t had the time to explore further though.


#31

I used it a couple of days ago. I was being blocked b/c my OS was up to date (!!!). The “other” box lets you manually edit the code, and I just put in an earlier version and it let me in.


#32

Ridiculous, though as we all here agree, not surprising. Thanks for the tip; I’ll give it another try this way.


#33

These are 2 emails that I sent to my VA pump specialist about Java. I think they might be useful (especially the one from Feb. 19). In order to upload my pump data; I now use an old barely functional laptop that is isolated from everything else that uses our home’s wifi.

August 8, 2017

In 2015, both Google and Microsoft stopped allowing any Java to run on their newest browsers because of it’s numerous security problems. They represent about two-thirds of the browser market for desktop computers.

MiniMed will not allow these browsers to use it’s site, because they use Java apps. They recommend Firefox instead. Funny thing is that in 2015, Firefox announced it was in the process of ending Java support. “Mozilla continues to work with the Oracle Java Platform Group to ensure a smooth transition for those web sites that use Java.” blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/

US-CERT (Computer Emergency Readiness Team) is part of the Department of Homeland Security. In 2013, Java vulnerabilities prompted the US-CERT to encourage the public to disable Java unless it’s absolutely necessary.

On July 5, 2017, The U.S. Computer Security Resource Center’s National Vulnerability Database reported yet another “HIGH” vulnerability from a commonly used Java plug-in (Password.Java) because it allows hackers to capture user passwords. nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2017-9735#vulnDescriptionTitle

Java was created by Oracle. It’s ending support for its own product. “Oracle plans to deprecate the Java browser plugin in JDK 9. This technology will be removed from the Oracle JDK and JRE” blogs.oracle.com/Java-platform-group/moving-to-a-plugin-free-web

Veracode, a key software security firm, says “97 percent of all Java applications we assessed had at least one component with a known vulnerability.” www.veracode.com/blog/secure-development/what-developers-should-know-about-state-software-security

I haven’t allowed any Java code to run on my computer for about 5 years now. Since I visit the Greenbrier Valley VA clinic at least once every 2 weeks. Would it be okay if I let the heavily firewalled VA computer network there, upload my pump and glucometer data on a regular basis?

If not, each time I need to upload the data; I’ll install Java and then quickly delete it.

Thanks! (very, very much! This new pump is great and it’ll be even better with the CGM.)

Feb. 19, 2018

I just tried to upload the current pump and glucometer data for you. When I clicked “upload” on the Medtronic site; I got a message saying the Federal Trade Commission had sued Oracle for making allegedly deceptive security claims about Java. It had a link to click to “update Java”. Stupidly, I clicked it. Now the Medtronic upload page is dead and I’ve got to clean some hidden malware from my computer. I didn’t suspect the link because the FTC had sued Oracle (the maker of Java) back in 2015 and I just thought they had sued them again. I hate Java on browsers. Medtronic probably tells people that 3 billion devices use Java so it must be okay. True, but that is “pure” Java, not the ■■■■■■■■ browser add-on that everyone except Firefox banned years ago. I’m sorry for dumping but I was momentarily feeling a bit better because of the Medtronic sensors arriving. Now I’m crying and trying not to throw my computer out the window.


#34

To some degree this is Medtronic’s fault, but I think it’s important to ask to what extent it’s built into the whole closed-loop endeavor. There’s a fine line between having a device take the controls so you don’t have to think about it, and taking control out of your hands because you can’t be trusted with it.

There’s absolutely no reason closed-loop systems need to be designed to be user-hostile. The open-source LOOP code, which was designed by and for the people who use it, makes all the settings easily accessible for adjusting. There are no tedious, cumbersome dialogs. For instance, to take a 3u bolus from the iPhone app you 1: press the bolus button, 2: type 3 on the keypad, 3: press the deliver button. The LOOP algorithm is completely open, deterministic, and repeatable; there’s no “hidden learning” that makes it do surprising or disturbing things. It’s not clear that the commercial closed-loop systems will ever be able to compete with the open-source systems in terms of convenience and ease of use.


#35

I agree, but whether commercial manufacturers will adopt that philosophy is a whole other question.

Well, yes, after you track down a compatible out-of-date MedT pump that didn’t get a firmware upgrade and download and install the software from Github, which is a rather geeky and strange experience for non-techie people. I have an old Pardigm, but it’s version 3 so I was disappointed to find I can’t try it.

It’s not that there aren’t ways around these obstacles, but it’s a setup that guarantees only a certain number of self-motivated people are going to do it.

All that said, I 100% agree that it SHOULD be the standard the commercial makers are held to. I think the import of what I was saying is that we should be aware that what is marketed as “you don’t need to worry about it, we’ll do it for you!” is either a convenience or a threat, depending on your p.o.v.


#36

whether commercial manufacturers will adopt that philosophy is a whole other question.

The SOOIL company from Korea has adopted that philosophy for the Dana-RS pump, whose radio interface was developed in cooperation with the AndroidAPS open-source looping project. There is some hope that the Dana-RS may become available in the US.

we should be aware that what is marketed as “you don’t need to worry about it, we’ll do it for you!” is either a convenience or a threat, depending on your p.o.v.

I’ll agree with you on that. I’d say it depends acutely on how well they do it while staying out of our way. Kind of the same as self-driving cars in that respect.


#37

Yes, I’ve thought of that analogy too. And I’m one of those people who drives a standard…


#38

Yes, it is more complicated and difficult to get set up with a do-it-yourself system but after living with Loop for 17 months, I believe it is well worth it. Confidently waking up almost every morning with a blood glucose in the 70-99 mg/dL range is incredible.

Ten years ago, it looked to me that a commercial automated insulin dosing system would be available by now. What surprised me is the incredibly short steps that this effort would take in the beginning.

I don’t have the luxury of extended periods of time available for me to wait for this technology to evolve. I am 65 this year; I need this technology now. Loop has filled my needs nicely. It’s not perfect and has a lot of room for improvement but this movement with its inherent nature to iterate quickly is just what I need.

If I didn’t have access to Loop, I think I would be looking to find a way to secure a Dana pump. Even if I had to go out-of-pocket for it, I think it’d be worth it. Your perspective will vary. This DIY tech is not for everyone but it’s already helped a lot of non-techie people.


#39

What LOOP-compatible pump are you using and how did you obtain it?


#40

My 670 arrived Friday. Still waiting on the first batch of Guardian sensors to schedule the training.

And so it begins…


#41

I’m using a MiniMed 722 pump. I found it using a Facebook pay it forward group site. I’ve also seen mention of pump leads on the Facebook Looped group. Some people find their pumps on CraigsList.

I’d recommend, if you want to start a search, getting the list of compatible pumps here:

Loop - https://loopkit.github.io/loopdocs/
OpenAPS - http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
AndroidAPS - https://github.com/MilosKozak/AndroidAPS/wiki

I’ve read about people who’ve found pumps through their doctor’s office or CDE’s. This search is kind of like looking for a job, you need to spread the word and express your interest. Given enough time and persistence, your chance of success improves.

Unfortunately, there are scam artists out there who are taking advantage of this increased interest in this era of MiniMed pumps. Be careful about who you deal with. Many people have gone down this path ahead of you. It can be done.


#42

Hi DrBB, I’m having a hard night with the 670. It takes forever for a high to come down and I hate highs with an intense passion. I hate that I can’t use my sensitivity now, I haven’t been on the system for long, do you know the estimated time frame for returning the pump if you’re not happy with it or did you have to keep your device? Just trying to plan ahead if worse comes to worse. In the mean time has anyone found a way to diminish highs in less than 12 hours lol? I really want to stick this out but when I tried to tell the rep I could handle a low she told me lows would kill brain cells. Let’s just disregard the high damage here and focus on a nonexistent low problem, someone please strangle me.


#43

Hi @Elyssia_Reedy, I was away camping all weekend so couldn’t reply. I’m totally on the same wavelength about highs, and I had the same frustration with how slowly the 670 does corrections. You may already know this but adjusting the AIT downward helps it behave more aggressively. I had mine set to 2hrs and would have set it lower if the pump allowed, but it doesn’t. The people who designed it seem to have been terrified that you might some day accidentally go below 100! Though in the user groups I saw people complaining about it keeping them too low all the time as well, so go figure. I think it’s a 30 grace period, though by the time I got my Guardian sensors, did the setup week and was just starting to tweak it that time had passed. Given that 6-day refresh rate on the algorithm, you can blow by 30 days just doing the initial adjustments, and even the people for whom it’s living up to all the promises say it takes at least a couple of months to get to that point.


#44

Hey Jimithy!! Have you tried updating Java directly from their website? This is a longer process and you need to make sure your cache is cleared if your computers running a bit slower before you go through the headache of it. Let me know what you find, I know you don’t like it as no one should but unfortunately a lot of IE based programs still need it.


#45

How many months did you fight with it if you don’t mind me asking? I’m just using a high correction in manual mode and turning the blasted thing off if I start to trend up. I do want to be patient and I will be as I had to work hard to pay for the pump, but it does infuriate me that she tried to SCARE me with lows! Come on now!